I was being a bit facetious, Big Wayne I apologise
apology accepted . . . you say you were being facetious but I saw your previous post more as what we call in debating circles "The Horse Laugh" and although you may enjoy making posts like that its not helping me and in no way helping the debate reach its "logical" conclusion . . .
Reductio ad Absurdum: This is a fallacy in which ridicule or mockery is substituted for evidence in an "argument" . . . a proposition is disproven by following its implications logically to an absurd consequence . . .
The argument that this price is too high only carries weight at the resellers when some companies blatantly profiteer
Check the Chain of Command Schematic in the
O.P . . . you may notice something in the link between manufacturers and "you"
. . . this link is as much a part of the problem as the manufacturers are but forum protocol limits what I can say!
The pressure on the manufacturers pricing starts with the consumer not making sales, this in turn hits the Middlemen who also exert pressure on the manufacturers pricing . . . this is a reversal of the old situation where the manufacturer charges the middlemen whatever they want then the middlemen add on their premium and the consumer is left to pick up the bill . . . time to flip this scenario around! . . .
The argument carries weight at both levels . . . manufacturers need to redesign products and streamline their overheads and the middlemen need to negotiate harder and use their economy of scales buying power to get a better deal . . . this may mean they need to cut down on their SKU's and buy a **** load of the products that people really want instead of buying smaller quantities of this that and the other . . .
However this boils down to the fact people are willing to pay those prices
Your not talking "fact" your sharing your opinion . . . logically people would prefere to not pay for anything but if they have a pressing need and they can't work out how to get their products for free then they will pay . . . preferably as little as possible . . .
The only reason I can think of why people are prepared to pay high prices is because they either don't know any better or they have such as intense admiration for a product through reading forums like these where a concentrated group of diehard geeks build up a punters expectations so much that the person will literally sell their granny or a kidney to posses this object of desire . . . this amazing thing we call a Graphics processing unit, a regular pieces of everyday hardware that is really not that exciting unless you surround yourself with other people who keep telling you it is . . .
Dont like it- fair enough dont buy but that will not change things
I'm not sure if that is a self fulfilling prophecy or an
Argumentum ad antiquitatem? . . . either or, your statement is not logical because if enough people think the same then as a united group they can effect change . . .
Don't try and make this out to be just me because its not . . . its about everyone getting a better deal . . . including you! . . .
what they are doing is at the bleeding edge of what is physically possible with the developement process meaning they cant simply adjust the design 'on the fly', saying they should do better is easy enough at a keyboard, the reality is the best engineers in the world at doing this did the best they could, and that resulted in an offering that you can buy or not
In my previous post it did come across like I was soley blaming the engineering team but this isn't strictly fair on them as they do what they get told to do . . . they are not experts in finance or bean-counters but simply know how to engineer something . . . the fault also lay with the management team and Jen-Hsun Huang for their vision and lack of understanding of what is needed in the market place and what price would be acceptable . . . Fermi may have been a bridge to far for nVidia . . . only time will tell . . . as it did for 3dFX
At the chip maker level saying they are profiteering is wrong, you cant profiteer selling something at a loss and to accuse them of this without knowing the unit cost is nonsensical anyhow
How do you know they are making a loss on each card that is sold exactly? . . . you don't do you but I guess its convenient to assume they are therefore justifying the high pricing in your own mind . . . if I was to guess I would think you see that nVidia has made a loss of $141 MILLION and "assume" that is because they are selling each product for less than cost price? . . . right or wrong?
Did it occur to you that this loss may be due to them wasting money elsewhere? . . . and then trying to recover this wasted cash by jacking up the product price waay beyond what its actually worth in an effort to keep themselves afloat? . . . . what about the previous years when nVidia were making very healthy profits selling old rope? . . . all of a sudden they post a loss and people come over all sympathetic and argue its fair for them to charge whatever they like for whatever product they bosh out? . . . and then actually rally around trying to defend a corporation that milked the public dry for years with little effort made in innovation and the pursuit of keeping the customer happy and instead focussed on their shareholders and sent the R&D off on a surfing vacation
I've heard of a conflict of interests before but this is just plain "ridiculous" . . . . nVidia fluffed up, they can take the rap,they can take the loss on their record keeping system and spend the next few years making better more affordable products aimed at the mass market that will actually generate a profit and pay off their debts . . .
I want to see nVidia concentrate on £100-£150 whizz bang GPU's that can run high quaity games in HD (1920x1080) and work out any last teeny wrinkles in their SLI technology so that the Die-Hards can buy two, three, four of these "sweetspot" priced £100-£150 cards and build a Uber system for their 32xAA Max Max "needs" . . . I do believe this card is the GTX 460 and its what Fermi should have been straight away . . .
This single fastest card crown is utter bull **** . . . . The GTX 480 is a load of ******** that may well be the undoing of nVidia . . . they neglected the real needs of the bulk of real people in pursuit of some ego nonsense that appeals to a minority!
two hundred (470 is around here) for a decent gpu that will play any title at acceptable settings on the average monitor is reasonable, I haven’t been in the gpu game for ages, but do you think this is an unreasonable price?
Yup! . . . £170 for a Vanilla GTX 470 would be a nice price . . . its seven months old now, there is plenty of stock, not that great a demand as this card falls outside the £125-£150 sweetspot . . . a lot of punters would perhaps consider exceeding a £150 max budget to step up to a GTX470 for £170 . . . its an extra £20-£45 more than their "sweetspot" spend but the added premium brings quite a bit of extra value so its a good incentive . . . the further the GTX 470 is priced from £170 the less the sales will be and the stock is just gonna sit there on the shelfs gathering dust . . .
The scope of this thread is not about the GTX 470 though but instead the GTX 460 768MB & 1024MB and the reduced prices listed in the O.P . . . as long as the majority of the GTX 460's stay below £150 then the greater bulk of consumers can continue to get good value
Above £150 is a sympathy vote
