New Star Trek series - 2017

Soldato
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Not often a show will end on 15 episodes these days, it wasn't that bad a finale but it hardly did anything new here again, I think they hope that with the 'fanservice' done at the end of the episode they'll hope people will find the finale better than it was.

Wonder if they'll bring back the actor who played Pike in the JJ films in this series?
 

JRS

JRS

Soldato
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Here is the Enterprise as seen in Discovery (set in 2257 or thereabouts):

DpRBVfZ.jpg

Here is the Enterprise as seen in the remastered version of "The Cage" (the original pilot for Star Trek) and in the flashbacks to that mission in "The Menagerie" (set in 2259):

9H3LGmL.jpg

It just doesn't work. It's not believable that the Trek universe goes from the ship looking like it does in this season finale, to the look in "The Cage", to the look in TOS, to the look post-refit in TMP. And it's a fair bet that it's only been changed for the sake of making it fit the Discovery aesthetic...*sigh*

I said in the spoiler in my previous post that this show needs new writers. It needs new producers and creative people as well.
 
Soldato
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the original enterprise was designed 50 years ago, I don't see the need for the the enterprise in Discovery to identical to any of the designs made in the 60's. That said, it's not that different at all. It still has red buzzard collectors, albeit they are lit up now, still has the satellite dish deflector, doesnt appear to have any added joints or pods or anything like that. In fact, whilst the design is very clearly still enterprise A, it's closer in look to the enterprise B - cool steel colour and not porcelain white, doesnt look like a model like the original designs clearly did....it's actually far more in keeping with the enterprise b/c and d designs in general than the originals are.

I like it.

in before the start of season two and somebody complains the enterprise doesnt have switch and knob consoles like the it did in TOS ...

edit: oh and YEY more Killy.
 
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Soldato
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There's nothing wrong with updating the look and design to match modern capabilities. Otherwise we'd be looking at shaky wooden sets, ropey visual effects, and every woman in a mini-dress and a bee-hive hairdo.
 

JRS

JRS

Soldato
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the original enterprise was designed 50 years ago, I don't see the need for the the enterprise in Discovery to identical to any of the designs made in the 60's. That said, it's not that different at all. It still has red buzzard collectors, albeit they are lit up now, still has the satellite dish deflector, doesnt appear to have any added joints or pods or anything like that.

The nacelles are different. The nacelle struts are different. The shape of the secondary hull is different, particularly at the back where the shuttle deck is. The impulse engines are different. The colour and hull detailing is different. But yeah, apart from all that it's not that different at all...

I'm going to go slightly off-topic here, so apologies in advance. But I think Discovery is having a similar-but-maybe-reversed problem to the one that Enterprise as a series had. Enterprise sort-of failed because they fell into the trap of not wanting to change too much despite going back 100+ years pre-TOS. Some things could have been really interesting - the ship doesn't have shields, or a tractor beam, the transporter is a comparatively recent invention. But they ended up with polarised hull plating that does the same job as shields (right down to the "...down to 25% captain!" trope), a grappler that does the same job as a tractor beam and almost equally as well, a transporter that beams people around faster than the one on Kirk's ship 110 years later. The ship is supposed to be much slower than later ones, but it still gets to a different planet each week. Phase cannons act just like phasers, photonic torpedoes exactly the same as the torpedoes later in the Trek timeline.

Discovery now wants to change stuff. They want to show a different method of getting around the galaxy, want to show things that we haven't seen before. But then they've set it right smack in the middle of an era that we have seen before. So none of this cool new stuff fits. There was absolutely no need to bring the Enterprise into the show. None. Just like there was no need for Sarek to show up, or Burnham to have been adopted by him in her backstory, or any need for Mudd to show up. It just smacks of the showrunners being desperate to shoehorn this show into canon but not wanting to compromise Their Vision For The Show™ with bothersome continuity. So fine. You want to make your vision of Trek? Do a reboot. Better yet, set it after the shows and films, right into uncharted territory. Show something new, not a retread over old ground and established events.
 
Soldato
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I always said they would have this problem. Too much like Trek, and "we've seen it all before" too much new stuff and "it's not Trek enough". They really should have gone forwards instead of backwards, and that would have given them a blank slate to play with. They could have done a Klingon war as the Empire breaks into factions, they could have done a mirror universe run, they could have invented new stuff and had a new Enterprise. They are too scared to break away when they can stick to the already successful reboot of the TOS era.
 
Soldato
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JRS, You're nit-picking and repeating what I've said :p I expect the new design to be different to the original limited-by-1960's-technology designs and they are more in keeping with the ncc1701b/c and D, anyway, so I am quite happy with it as i expect most people will be. Yes, the rear section is different but again that is closer to the 1701b's rear section than then original enterprise's was. So again, I'm fine with it. It's the original 1701 and (1701a (though less so) that look so out of place next to the rest of the enterprise designs.
 
Caporegime
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The nacelles are different. The nacelle struts are different. The shape of the secondary hull is different, particularly at the back where the shuttle deck is. The impulse engines are different. The colour and hull detailing is different. But yeah, apart from all that it's not that different at all...

In terms of overall shape and what its meant to be, no its not all that different. But the simple fact is even if it had been the version from the remastered episodes some people would be on the moan about that as well. The design style of the 60's just looked far too dated these days, if they were to have designed all the ships in discovery using that aesthetic it would just look strange as the bridge and ship internals would also have to marry up to that design, then you'd have people with microscopes out looking for any differences and on finding them it would be classed as sacrilege. Its a different design but it's like a mix of the TOS Enterprise and the refit TMP Enterprise and imo looks pretty good, certainly better than the Abrams design.
 

JRS

JRS

Soldato
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certainly better than the Abrams design.

No question. If they'd presented that ship in the 2009 film instead of the monstrosity that we actually got, I'd have been quite happy.

***edit***

Anyway, leaving aside thoughts on the look of NCC-1701 (not something I see me ever agreeing should be changed). A lot of the issues this show has had for me have had their root in the choice to focus on Mary Sue Bonehead. And this episode is a shining example - suddenly she's the One True Saviour™ of the Federation by being the one to say 'uh, how about we don't commit genocide?' and handing control of the big ******* bomb to one of the enemy. I'm sorry, but this is just idiotic writing.

I liked this point from another discussion forum:

We're left with a season-long arc in which the Federation becomes genocidal and Only One Person, former mutineer Michael, can show them the error of their ways. So the Michael character is redeemed at the cost of making Starfleet completely amoral; her record is wiped clean and she's given a new commission as Commander because she stopped Starfleet from committing genocide. Wow. Redeeming your troubled protagonist ready for season 2 at the cost of the Star Trek universe's worldbuilding and value system is a big price. The ending is a reset button, even if no time shenanigans are involved - and the use of Cornwell, who until now has been well-played and consistently written, as the episode's de-facto antagonist who has to be shown the error of her ways and talked out of mass murder, does significant damage to her character (ditto Sarek).
 
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HeX

HeX

Soldato
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and handing control of the big ******* bomb to one of the enemy. I'm sorry, but this is just idiotic writing.

This. L'Rell would just be instantly assassinated, or the trigger destroyed, I don't quite know how they expect her to maintain control...

It would have been much better if they'd just had one of the Federation big brass call the Klingon's out, and say "Hey, we know you're poised to come blow us up, but if you do your homeworld is going bye bye... come at me bro...", as it's literally just been stated that the Klingons respect strength. This would have been an epic power play to show the strength of the Federation (and fits nicely in with the 'Vulcan Hello...')...

Also - Don't have an issue with the look of the Enterprise, it keeps the general aesthetic and silhouette while bringing the design into modern CGI. A much better job than the curved monstrosity in the JJverse.
 
Man of Honour
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Here is the Enterprise as seen in Discovery (set in 2257 or thereabouts):

DpRBVfZ.jpg

Here is the Enterprise as seen in the remastered version of "The Cage" (the original pilot for Star Trek) and in the flashbacks to that mission in "The Menagerie" (set in 2259):

9H3LGmL.jpg

It just doesn't work. It's not believable that the Trek universe goes from the ship looking like it does in this season finale, to the look in "The Cage", to the look in TOS, to the look post-refit in TMP. And it's a fair bet that it's only been changed for the sake of making it fit the Discovery aesthetic...*sigh*

I said in the spoiler in my previous post that this show needs new writers. It needs new producers and creative people as well.

Why would they make it look awful though? It doesn't need to look the same to be the same ship. Consider it a recast. Actors are recast all the time.
 
Soldato
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The thing that annoyed me was the usual weak Federation all wanting to sit down and sing kumbaya. The thing about humans is that we're adaptable, not constrained by one viewpoint. That's what made Lorca such a good character, and why the series is weaker with him gone. Sure we're the happy clappy federation, come be our friend, but if you **** with us, we will finish you. We should be the embodiment of "talk softly and carry a big stick". We know that the Klingons respect strength, so we should show a little mettle, not simply forget the billions killed so the Klingons will be our friends (maybe). When the opportunity arises to do something different, Discovery runs back to the same old Trek-tropes.
 
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