I know a lot of people that loved it. Fun and very like tng.
New Star Trek series - 2017
- Thread starter Spit
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Soldato
Orville felt more like Star Trek than Discovery did.
Soldato
It's an interesting thing. Heavy cruisers were not about being the largest ship in a navy (battlecruisers, battleships, dreadnoughts and carriers have them beat for size) - they're about being able to go a long way and do so fast. Which is what the Constitution class of TOS clearly was about - the starships were said to be the fastest ships around, and were doing (mostly) unsupported missions in deep space for five years. And it's not as if they're particularly small - Scotty states that the Enterprise masses nearly a million tons in one episode.
And yeah, the Ent-D is vast. It was also flying around a comparatively tamer galaxy than the one shown in TOS, so the Federation could get away with building a huge space-going ocean liner that carried families and children onboard. Deep space in TOS was a bit rougher - marauding Klingons, Orion pirates, doomsday machines, ancient Greek gods, a gigantic space amoeba...
And to be honest, I'd be easy with it too if they just came out and called this a reboot rather than saying "oh yeah, we respect canon and we'll show you how this show fits neatly within it, we just want to change nearly everything because we like fancy light-up **** and excessive surface detailing so you can see the VFX budget being justified".
Man of Honour
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Disagree. Orville couldn’t decide whether it was serious or a comedy and kept switching between them.
Soldato
True, the tone was a little uneven. But at least I give a rat's behind about the crew of the Orville. Hell, I can't even name the bridge crew of the Discovery - and please, any of you. Be my guest and name, say, the helmsman or Ops officer of the Discovery without resorting to Google
Man of Honour
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True, the tone was a little uneven. But at least I give a rat's behind about the crew of the Orville. Hell, I can't even name the bridge crew of the Discovery - and please, any of you. Be my guest and name, say, the helmsman or Ops officer of the Discovery without resorting to Google
True, but I can't for the Orville either
Soldato
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Who was the helmsman in TNG, when it wasn’t data or wesley? There were loads of enterprise footnotes, of all colours races and genders but I doubt any of them were actually named?
Soldato
Umm. There was that Bajoran. You know, the female one.
Soldato
Geordi LaForge early on, before he became Chief Engineer in season 2. Miles O'Brien before he became transporter chief. Sariel Rager in a few episodes (she's the one who put the Enterprise into a roll to escape the Dyson Sphere in "Relics"). Ro Laren, who later defected to the Maquis. Ensign Gates in a bunch of episodes from the third season onwards.
Soldato
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Precisely, at the end of season one, basically no one who wasnt penned in for a bigger role.
All their helmsmen were introduced in this fashion, and expanded to bigger roles.
Discovery spent more than half a season if frankly not longer concentrating on a single character.
All the previous shows spent episodes developing and expanding characters.
Take worf, one dimensional something, to the pinnacle of the perfect Klingon with a deep and overlapping arcs through two entire shows.
The other can do the same if they eventually choose to. They mainly didn’t until the final couple of episodes actually started to introduce the characters.
All their helmsmen were introduced in this fashion, and expanded to bigger roles.
Discovery spent more than half a season if frankly not longer concentrating on a single character.
All the previous shows spent episodes developing and expanding characters.
Take worf, one dimensional something, to the pinnacle of the perfect Klingon with a deep and overlapping arcs through two entire shows.
The other can do the same if they eventually choose to. They mainly didn’t until the final couple of episodes actually started to introduce the characters.
You certainly noticed the crew on the bridge speaking a whole lot more in the last 2-3 episodes compared to the first 4-5.
Soldato
No, they spent the entire season concentrating on Bonehead Burnham, to the detriment of all other characterisation. The few characters who began as interesting and well-written were either killed (e.g Prime universe Georgiou at the end of the pilot episodes) or became far less interesting (e.g Lorca, revealed to be Mirror Lorca, turning into Generic Moustache-twirling Evil Guy™). And they capped it all by turning everyone else in the Federation into a moron at the end of season 1 just in time for Burnham to 'save the day'.
Soldato
The two biggest problems with character development is it's not following the traditional "monster of the week" format of previous shows so the range of scenarios and character interaction is severely limited... and we're following a lead character who is designed NOT to make friends and they've tried to force some cheesy social interaction in the form of an evil alienated boyfriend and an insecure bunkmate. If they spent more time with bigger landing parties or ship based emergencies and more interaction with the crew we might actually get somewhere. Instead we're either arguing with a captain (either), arguing with beanstalk, ignoring bunkmate, kissing klingon, having a strop with daddy vulcan or peeing off chief engineer. There's no team effort or happy social interaction. Tilly would have been a better choice to base the series around because she actually wants to do something and make progress!
We can look back on Next Gen with rose tinted glasses because we've had multiple series of character development to give us a complete picture, but we're not going to get that with Burnham because she doesn't want to interact. If Next Gen had focused their efforts around Worf for an entire season we'd also be bored of it because he had no reason to hang around in Engineering, no reason to see the medical bay, no friends to hang around in 10-forward that often and lived alone.
We can look back on Next Gen with rose tinted glasses because we've had multiple series of character development to give us a complete picture, but we're not going to get that with Burnham because she doesn't want to interact. If Next Gen had focused their efforts around Worf for an entire season we'd also be bored of it because he had no reason to hang around in Engineering, no reason to see the medical bay, no friends to hang around in 10-forward that often and lived alone.
Soldato
Do we? I'm not sure that's true.
You could just try not caring, and see if it let's you enjoy the show more
The problem I have with star trek highlights a problem I have with films/tv in general.
The problem is the good guy always wins, any victories for the bad guy are temporary only, and it makes things too predictable.
Funny enough it was highlighted in the film goldfish in a conversation at the start of the movie, one of a very few creations with a good ending.
I am not saying bad guys should always win as thats equally as bad, I am saying it needs to be more towards 50/50 so its unpredictable.
Kinda gets boring seeing enterprise ships overwhelm the likes of klingon time and time again as an example. Was sad e.g. in the movies seeing the klingons get initiative in a fight, they hit the federation ships what seems like 20 times, then the federation get a recovery in motion, they only need to hit the klingons once or twice and then they win. Its pretty unspectacular in the end but predictable.
The problem is the good guy always wins, any victories for the bad guy are temporary only, and it makes things too predictable.
Funny enough it was highlighted in the film goldfish in a conversation at the start of the movie, one of a very few creations with a good ending.
I am not saying bad guys should always win as thats equally as bad, I am saying it needs to be more towards 50/50 so its unpredictable.
Kinda gets boring seeing enterprise ships overwhelm the likes of klingon time and time again as an example. Was sad e.g. in the movies seeing the klingons get initiative in a fight, they hit the federation ships what seems like 20 times, then the federation get a recovery in motion, they only need to hit the klingons once or twice and then they win. Its pretty unspectacular in the end but predictable.
Soldato
Do we? I'm not sure that's true.
You could just try not caring, and see if it let's you enjoy the show more
Okay...so we put the issue of Enterprise visual continuity to one side. That just leaves the myriad other continuity issues to deal with. It leaves the plot issues - holes, twists that seem to exist for their own sake, points that they spend so long getting to that the audience has long since figured it all out when the writers try and say 'surprise!'. And it leaves the unlikeable characters - some that started great and devolved, some that started 'meh' and never really improved, some that started out deeply, deeply flawed in conception and characterisation and somehow got worse.
Nope, the show has a lot of things to fix before I can even begin to enjoy it. At least they pressed The Great Big Reset Button™ at the end of season 1, so the writers don't have to carry any of the brainless plot decisions over to the next season of the show. They have the option now of making Star Trek rather than the 'generic dark sci-fi series with Trek elements' that they fell into writing before.
Soldato
Don't forget Lt. Jae. The character who never had a single line of dialogue but seemed to have worked in every area of the Enterprise D and E, including the helm.
They were better off redesigning the enterprise as the simple fact is if they had kept it tos "canon" design it just would have looked totally out of place. It was weird enough looking when they had the defiant in the enterprise alternate universe episodes, got even weirder looking when you seen the bridge and ship internals. Now contrast that against how it would look against a ship with holographic comms systems etc, it would looks like something made of lego with a bridge layout and design that would look like something farcically out of date. The tos connie was barely the size of the enterprise d nacelle, things had to be scaled up for it to fit into this universe. Regardless of it being the Enterpise or not, the same decisions would have had to have been taken if it was just another Constitution class ship. At least it looks like the enterprise, the same can't be said for other iconic ships such as the Klingon D7.
Caporegime
When's S2 air?