Permabanned
Yeah - for the money the LC is commanding... 911 / R8 / F-Type V8 and it's bordering on DB11 money which is a better Sports GT car.
New Toyota Supra formally announced
- Thread starter Lowe
- Start date
Was my issue, Mustang was 49k with every option and around 45k with discount (now possible from coast 2 coast), the Lexus was 88k but close to 80k after discount.
So the Lexus was £35,000 more than the Mustang and in some ways the Mustang was a better car, engine, cluster, felt smaller and more nimble plus I preferred the looks and residuals were better. Though the Lexus also had wins where it won for me was less important. Both have super 10 speeds however, Lexus feels more engaging, though the Fords is quicker. But to me the Lexus should be more around 65k, don't get me wrong it is stuck together and materials used are that of a 100k car, just unfortunately the performance is nowhere near that of a 100k car. Which is why I think Lexus are just trying to tick too many boxes, but at the same time it is very rare, limited production and of course such things always command higher prices, unfortunately I don't think residuals will be great even though it is rare, a very rare car on UK roads.
Soldato
I looked at RC Carbon and LC500 Sport Plus as an alternative to the Mustang. I dismissed the RCF pretty immediately due to older gear box and just not liking it so much. The LC500 in person is very marmite, from some angles I loved it, but from others it just looked odd, but one thing guaranteed is nothing else looks like the LC500 on the road. I shall start with the good stuff, the interior is amazing, way better put together and much higher quality than BMW and even Audi, but to me I get the car is a GT but its also trying to be a sporty GT and as such it came across to me that the car is trying to tick too many boxes. The 10 speed gear box is good, responsive and makes great blips on downshifts. Engine is quite a peach too, but needs to be revved due to the weight of the car.
Problem for me with LC500 was it was SLOW, even with the fast 10 speed box its a 5s to 60 car. Then in Sports Plus specification it was nearly 90k, though Lexus will discount them to close to 80k, but I was comparing it against a 2018 Mustang and it just failed to impress. Over £30,000 more, around 250kg heavier, also the Coyote gen3 engine is better, a lot more available torque across the whole power range and revs even higher than the Lexus motor. Lexus 10 speed makes nicer noises, though the Ford/GM 10 speed shifts faster. Of course the Lexus is in another world on the interior, though the 18 Mustang digital cluster is nicer.
If money is not a real issue or depreciation and your main plus points are having a super rare car that is incredibly well bolted together with a stunning interior and makes a good noise the LC500 is a good car.
But if your more performance orientated for me the 2018 Mustang even with its poorer chassis but with mag ride is a more fun car handling wise and its a quicker cars, 1/4 mile on an A10 Mustang is like 12s dead, whereas LC500 is around 13.5s which is a big performance delta.
Plus I enjoy modding, Mustang has huge potential, Lexus on the other hand well forget that.
For me the Lexus is very much a GT, the sports part and performance part is minimal, of course to some it maybe amazing but it really depends what your used too and your priorities and for me its more about performance, every day use ability and sound/rarity.
The other car to consider is the Alfa Quaddroflfofodkjhflkjfsdlkjflkdsjfls whatever they call it, that is super quick, will absolutely embarrass the Lexus and is quicker than 2018 Mustang too, also handles nicely, the downsides on the Alfa being reliability and residuals as value wise they are getting hammered but at 50k second hand with 2yr warranty are worth considering.
There is no one real perfect car, Ford has the engine, reliability and value, Alfa has the handling, Lexus has the interior and rarity.
For me the F-Type was the car never considered but it won me over, admittedly I had to go used to get the F-Type I want (SVR) but at the same time I've saved myself a huge chunk of depreciation by doing so (40-50k) by getting one in quite a desirable specification for 80k and I can tell you its a car that can play all the cards, supercar, GT, sports car, it is a brilliant thing and even better it is British and it is nice to support the British car industry which definitely seems to be on the up with what Jaguar and Mclaren are doing.
Horses for courses and all that, the different cars have their plus points and the negatives. The Lexus's selling point for me would be the looks, sound, quality, comfort and its still 'more than enough' performance.
The Mustang just can't be beaten for the value, if we had bigger roads and cheap fuel in the UK, they would probably be a common sight, because what you get for your money is unbeatable.
Soldato
It's joint development, they are both still going their own ways in certain application, not just looks but the way it will drive. So you can say 50/50 of each, which from a purist point of view is not very good, but hey thats how the market is now, collabs and platform sharing are going to be more and more common, especially in the more niche segments where development costs tend to outweigh actual market demand.
Soldato
Great Head-to-Head on the LC500 vs the DB11
It's a Toyota with a BMW engine. Similar to how the GT86 is a Toyota with a Subaru engine.
Partnering up keeps costs down as cars like these are expensive to make, since everything has to be bespoke. Which means it needs it's own production line. Usually manufacturers have a handful of chassis and stick various bodies on top.
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Soldato
Not sure many cars have separate chassis these days Jeremy...
Except for when it's a bespoke design, like I said.
Soldato
Eh? Which cars are you talking about here? Pretty much only Morgan have a separate chassis rather than a monoque! (SUVs excepted of course).
The BRZ/gt86 has a bespoke chassis and was made to fit the boxer engine specifically. So I'm guessing the Supra will as well.
Soldato
I think you're talking about platform engineering, which these days is very flexible (see MQB for an example). One would never describe it as a 'a chassis with a body on top'! The body is part of the chassis as it's a monocoque!
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No I mean bespoke. As in it's something made only for that model. A lot of modern cars will share the basic chassis and other parts to keep costs down.
Soldato
You think these cars have separate chassis (i.e. separate chassis and body) and are not monocoques?
The Toyota and the BMW will be based on the same shared architecture/platform as a cost saving exercise. But it is simply not a 'chassis with a different body plonked on top'. It's far more involved these days. As its a monocoque many of the so-called 'hard points' in the body are not easy to move around.
No, that's something different and not what I mean.
Soldato
Stop saying "chassis with body on top" then!
Soldato
I think there is confusion between platform sharing and chassis. The chassis is a very specific thing, most cars are unibody design, so the chassis isn't just the floorpan, but overall frame of the car, then you have the sheetmetal making up the body design.
So technically you cannot have a shared 'chassis' amongst different models, e.g. a Golf and a Passat have different chassis, e.g. Passat skeleton is bigger, has a boot at the back so extended inner side frame, but they can share the same platform which basically means they share various different parts, components and concepts. Such as suspensions, drivetrain, crash protection elements, interior parts such as instrument binnacle, switchgear etc.
The Toyota-BMW is a shared platform, they will be sharing many parts, such as the drivetrain, suspension, even possibly the base floorplan of the chassis can be similar. But they both are making different types of car as they both have a different idea of what they want to make. Toyota are making a new Supra which, BMW are using the platform to build a new roadster.
The Mazda MX5 and Fiat 124 is another good example, both platform share, but have some major differences too, e.g. both have same suspensions but they have entirely different drivetrains. I'm not too sure on the chassis side of things, I think it might be the same with only the sheetmetal being different, as obviously different designs.
The BRZ-GT86 is a good example of two cars that are essentially the same with just minor differences, almost 'badge engineering' then merely platform sharing.
So technically you cannot have a shared 'chassis' amongst different models, e.g. a Golf and a Passat have different chassis, e.g. Passat skeleton is bigger, has a boot at the back so extended inner side frame, but they can share the same platform which basically means they share various different parts, components and concepts. Such as suspensions, drivetrain, crash protection elements, interior parts such as instrument binnacle, switchgear etc.
The Toyota-BMW is a shared platform, they will be sharing many parts, such as the drivetrain, suspension, even possibly the base floorplan of the chassis can be similar. But they both are making different types of car as they both have a different idea of what they want to make. Toyota are making a new Supra which, BMW are using the platform to build a new roadster.
The Mazda MX5 and Fiat 124 is another good example, both platform share, but have some major differences too, e.g. both have same suspensions but they have entirely different drivetrains. I'm not too sure on the chassis side of things, I think it might be the same with only the sheetmetal being different, as obviously different designs.
The BRZ-GT86 is a good example of two cars that are essentially the same with just minor differences, almost 'badge engineering' then merely platform sharing.
Associate
Seen the new supra at the geneva show yesterday. Can't wait is all I can say.
Man of Honour
Although I can offer no sensible reason why, the idea a Supra with a BMW engine just makes me a little sad inside. Some of the best/worst experiences I had in Japanese cars have been down to the daft/quirky/insane engines.
If they do choose to go with a BMW powerplant like the media suggests, I am sure it will be a formidable car. Just not for me, not that I could afford one anyway
If they do choose to go with a BMW powerplant like the media suggests, I am sure it will be a formidable car. Just not for me, not that I could afford one anyway
Soldato
All over complicating it. Chassis are the axles, the floor is the body, often monocoque now.
For example an A6 and A7 have a common floor and seat mounting but then. The chassis is often the part you change on a common body in terms of executing saloons and crossovers off the same body.
For example an A6 and A7 have a common floor and seat mounting but then. The chassis is often the part you change on a common body in terms of executing saloons and crossovers off the same body.