New upgrade \ build - Advice Please

obiwanquinobi` · 18 Apr 2017 at 12:39

Greetings,

It's been a long time since I've posted on here but its upgrade time - my old PC has finally started to give up the ghost and you knowledgeable folks have helped me out before so here goes...

The new build will be used mainly for general use\photo editing\music production and some 'light' gaming (occasional) I need a small case and not too much in the way of noise levels.

I've already done a bit of research and I'm looking at the following components on the website:

My basket at Overclockers UK:

1 x BitFenix Phenom MATX Cube Case - Midnight Black= £69.95
1 x Asus H110M-A/M.2 Intel H110 (Socket 1151) DDR4 Micro ATX Motherboard= £52.99
1 x Intel Core i5-7400 3.00GHz (Kaby Lake) Socket LGA1151 Processor - Retail= £188.99
1 x Kingston Fury Black 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-17000C14 2133MHz Dual Channel Kit (HX421C14FB2K2/16)= £128.99

Total: £440.92
(includes shipping: £0.00)

I already have the following components that can be salvaged from my old PC:

Samsung 250GB SSD
Seasonic M12II EVO Edition 750W '80 Plus Bronze Modular PSU
MSI GTX 970 GAMING Twin Frozr Graphics Card
PCIE WiFI N Adaptor

Questions:

Will the graphics card fit in this case OK?
Will I be able to fit a WiFI PCIE card into the case also? (Considering the size of the graphics board)
Will my old PSU be OK to fit in the case?
What about a CPU cooler? - will the retail CPU fan be OK in this BitFenix case - considering the other components or do I need to think about an aftermarket solution? Maybe a AIO watercooler? NB: I won't be overclocking at all.
Any other problems gotchas or issues I need to look out for?

Thanks in advance for any replies guys,

John

Plec · 18 Apr 2017 at 13:17

Yes - will apparently take 2 up to 320mm in length - but that would be a tight. Yours is only 177mm in length and singular.
Yes - given the above info
Yes, it's standard size
Retail will be fine. If you're worried about temps - bottom and rear fan should keep things cool at stock.
You're doing an an INTEL build instead of Ryzen

obiwanquinobi` · 18 Apr 2017 at 13:32

Plec said:
Yes - will apparently take 2 up to 320mm in length - but that would be a tight. Yours is only 177mm in length and singular.

Yes - given the above info

Yes, it's standard size

Retail will be fine. If you're worried about temps - bottom and rear fan should keep things cool at stock.

You're doing an an INTEL build instead of Ryzen

Many thanks for the response, Plec

I'm not up on the Ryzen stuff to be honest.

Can you recommend a Ryzen CPU and Micro ATX board \ RAM for around the same price?

Plec · 18 Apr 2017 at 14:15

If you have no interest in overclocking 'ever' then your £440 budget could get the same case, the Ryzen 1500 (When there back in stock - or get the X flavour) combined with a Gigabyte GA A320M micro atx motherboard (you can't overclock on this board). Plus the memory of your choice from this thread - but all 2400-2600 kits work with all main boards (Ryzen supports up to 3600 - but 3200 is the sweet spot in high end boards - not the a320m).

The Ryzen CPU would benefit your use more cores/more threads - but the main benefit would be that the AM4 will have significant longevity over the INTEL socket. You will be able to upgrade it for a few years to come... Which is why I would also recommend the B350 boards if you could afford it.

It's only a suggestion - I would watch some YouTube review (latest ones) since the 5s have been released. They really are a great CPU...

mickyflinn · 18 Apr 2017 at 14:36

The h110 mothereboard may need a Bios update to take the 7400 kablake cpu.

obiwanquinobi` · 18 Apr 2017 at 17:53

Plec said:
If you have no interest in overclocking 'ever' then your £440 budget could get the same case, the Ryzen 1500 (When there back in stock - or get the X flavour) combined with a Gigabyte GA A320M micro atx motherboard (you can't overclock on this board). Plus the memory of your choice from this thread - but all 2400-2600 kits work with all main boards (Ryzen supports up to 3600 - but 3200 is the sweet spot in high end boards - not the a320m).

The Ryzen CPU would benefit your use more cores/more threads - but the main benefit would be that the AM4 will have significant longevity over the INTEL socket. You will be able to upgrade it for a few years to come... Which is why I would also recommend the B350 boards if you could afford it.

It's only a suggestion - I would watch some YouTube review (latest ones) since the 5s have been released. They really are a great CPU...

Thanks for the comprehensive reply, Plec.

I can afford little more but don't really want to go too daft. I'll take your advice on board and mull it over.

mickyflinn said:
The h110 mothereboard may need a Bios update to take the 7400 kablake cpu.

Roger that. Thanks for the heads up : )

Plec · 18 Apr 2017 at 18:33

obiwanquinobi` said:
Thanks for the comprehensive reply, Plec.

I can afford little more but don't really want to go too daft. I'll take your advice on board and mull it over.

No worries.

Don't feel pressured - and especially don't spend what you can't afford as the system you have specced is more than capable for your needs. But the GA A320M coupled with the Ryzen 1500 and 2400/2600 memory should come in within budget.

If you watch the Big reviewers on YouTube - talk about the Ryzen 5 and compare it directly to the Ryzen 7 and i7 they really shine. Their performance is improving on a daily basis as firmware/drivers/BIOS updates etc are released and programs start to be optimised around their architecture.

I totally get your reluctance too - AMD haven't exactly excelled in the CPU department over the past 10 years but they really have pulled one out of the bag. ANd even if you don't buy AMD, it's great for the buyer as prices are dropping thanks to some much needed competition.

obiwanquinobi` · 19 Apr 2017 at 08:30

Plec said:
No worries.

Don't feel pressured - and especially don't spend what you can't afford as the system you have specced is more than capable for your needs. But the GA A320M coupled with the Ryzen 1500 and 2400/2600 memory should come in within budget.

If you watch the Big reviewers on YouTube - talk about the Ryzen 5 and compare it directly to the Ryzen 7 and i7 they really shine. Their performance is improving on a daily basis as firmware/drivers/BIOS updates etc are released and programs start to be optimised around their architecture.

I totally get your reluctance too - AMD haven't exactly excelled in the CPU department over the past 10 years but they really have pulled one out of the bag. ANd even if you don't buy AMD, it's great for the buyer as prices are dropping thanks to some much needed competition.

Thanks again fella.

How does this look? (Would the board allow overclocking - should I wish to go there?)

My basket at Overclockers UK:

1 x BitFenix Phenom MATX Cube Case - Midnight Black= £69.95
1 x Kingston Fury Black 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-17000C14 2133MHz Dual Channel Kit (HX421C14FB2K2/16)= £128.99
1 x AMD Ryzen 5 Six Core 1600 3.60GHz (Socket AM4) Processor - Retail= £218.99
1 x Asus Prime B350M-A AMD B350 (Socket AM4) DDR4 Micro ATX Motherboard= £79.99

Total: £509.62
(includes shipping: £11.70)

Cheers again,

John

Plec · 19 Apr 2017 at 09:27

obiwanquinobi` said:
How does this look? (Would the board allow overclocking - should I wish to go there?)

My basket at Overclockers UK:

1 x BitFenix Phenom MATX Cube Case - Midnight Black= £69.95

1 x Kingston Fury Black 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-17000C14 2133MHz Dual Channel Kit (HX421C14FB2K2/16)= £128.99

1 x AMD Ryzen 5 Six Core 1600 3.60GHz (Socket AM4) Processor - Retail= £218.99

1 x Asus Prime B350M-A AMD B350 (Socket AM4) DDR4 Micro ATX Motherboard= £79.99

Total: £509.62
(includes shipping: £11.70)

That's a solid build (great bang for buck too) and certainly has more overall oomph than your INTEL build - but appreciate it's £70 more. But you will have that security of longevity with the socket - and as mentioned the drivrs/BIOS/software are improving all the time.

And yes, the B350 will overclock the 1600 to ~1600X speeds with the right cooler - but you can get a respectable clock with the stock cooler NPs - but not required (good to have up your sleeve).

Personally, I like the build - it looks balanced/considered for your needs and has the legs to last for years...

Did the reviews sway you?

obiwanquinobi` · 19 Apr 2017 at 17:01

Plec said:
That's a solid build (great bang for buck too) and certainly has more overall oomph than your INTEL build - but appreciate it's £70 more. But you will have that security of longevity with the socket - and as mentioned the drivrs/BIOS/software are improving all the time.

And yes, the B350 will overclock the 1600 to ~1600X speeds with the right cooler - but you can get a respectable clock with the stock cooler NPs - but not required (good to have up your sleeve).

Personally, I like the build - it looks balanced/considered for your needs and has the legs to last for years...

Did the reviews sway you?

The reviews are favourable and I'm tempted to go with the Ryzen setup but I'm still deliberating at this point. I've not had an AMD CPU since the old Athlon XP 3200 + 400FSB

The only things going against the Ryzen setup is that; with the platform being relatively new there may be teething problems and initial niggles during the build\setup that I really don't fancy having to deal with. I want this as hassle free as possible as my time is at a premium at present (isn't everyones?)

I also looked at some benchmarks and the Ryzen is a little slower (Vs an i5\i7 counterpart) at doing bulk exports and some other things like zooming 1:1 into an large RAW file in Lightroom. I do a lot of stuff like like this when going through hundreds of wildlife shots to find the ones with the best focus.

I would stretch to £600. So given that info.. one final bundle to consider (i7 Based) I will make my mind up over the weekend after some more deliberation

Maybe I need a better spec board to go with an i7?

My basket at Overclockers UK:

1 x BitFenix Phenom MATX Cube Case - Midnight Black= £69.95
1 x Asus H110M-A/M.2 Intel H110 (Socket 1151) DDR4 Micro ATX Motherboard= £52.99
1 x Kingston Fury Black 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-17000C14 2133MHz Dual Channel Kit (HX421C14FB2K2/16)= £128.99
1 x Intel Core i7-7700 3.6GHz (Kaby Lake) Socket LGA1151 Processor - Retail= £299.99

Total: £551.92
(includes shipping: £0.00)

Again, many thanks for your in-depth and comprehensive replies. You've been a massive help thus far.

Cheers

Plec · 19 Apr 2017 at 19:47

Just to clarify whatever I say from now on in relation to Ryzen is just to qualify my earlier recommendations and in no way is to try and persuade you to change your mind. I know what a PITA it can be for someone to relentlessly make you second guess your thinking - and as said before - your first build is a very capable spec.

obiwanquinobi` said:
I also looked at some benchmarks and the Ryzen is a little slower (Vs an i5\i7 counterpart) at doing bulk exports and some other things like zooming 1:1 into an large RAW file in Lightroom. I do a lot of stuff like like this when going through hundreds of wildlife shots to find the ones with the best focus.

You clearly have a specialised requirement from the CPU which you would be using a lot and studied the benchmarks that would benefit you most. As mentioned before – Ryzen is being optimised, on a daily basis, so this gap may close, if not reach parity, with the i5/i7 – but there is no guarantee.

obiwanquinobi` said:
I would stretch to £600. So given that info.. one final bundle to consider (i7 Based) I will make my mind up over the weekend after some more deliberation

Maybe I need a better spec board to go with an i7?

I'm not so sure - I don't like spending other people’s money that they didn't start off with. I don't mind advising spending a little more for significant gains - more relative bang for buck - but spending ~30% more on a build for marginal gains may not be the way to go.

Given your work (seems very interesting BTW) - I suspect you already have a decent monitor - but if you were thinking of upgrading that too, or need another, I would put the saved £160 and put it towards a decent sized IPS panel at a later date.

My reasoning is that if the i5 and the i7 were giving the Ryzens a run for their money in bulk exporting/zooming 1:1 etc then the i5 would perhaps be better bang for buck - especially if the i7 was only giving you marginal gains in a particular task that you wouldn’t realise in real life terms – but at a significant extra cost.

obiwanquinobi` said:
The only things going against the Ryzen setup is that; with the platform being relatively new there may be teething problems and initial niggles during the build\setup that I really don't fancy having to deal with. I want this as hassle free as possible as my time is at a premium at present (isn't everyones?)

You’re clearly leaning towards INTEL – and I can’t blame you – they’re a proven CPU. They’ve been the go to CPU for years and software/drivers have been optimised and refined around their architecture in this time. So, yes your right – you're almost guaranteed a seemless build with guaranteed results – which is definitely no small factor if time is a premium. This is the one area I can’t counter – as the Ryzen is a bit of an unknown and the fact that I have to keep mentioning BIOS/software updates to qualify my recommendation of the platform probably is statement enough.

Basically, I get the impression stability, reliability and ease of build is paramount and the INTEL build seems to tick all your boxes at present. However, you had a respectable budget of £460 and had assembled a solid build for the money. I would say if the i5-7400 was holding its own within the areas you would use regularly – then I would save your money.

The above is purely another take on the thread - if you feel the i7 will benefit your work and would warrant the extra £££ then obviously go for it.

obiwanquinobi` · 20 Apr 2017 at 12:57

Plec said:
Just to clarify whatever I say from now on in relation to Ryzen is just to qualify my earlier recommendations and in no way is to try and persuade you to change your mind. I know what a PITA it can be for someone to relentlessly make you second guess your thinking - and as said before - your first build is a very capable spec.

You clearly have a specialised requirement from the CPU which you would be using a lot and studied the benchmarks that would benefit you most. As mentioned before – Ryzen is being optimised, on a daily basis, so this gap may close, if not reach parity, with the i5/i7 – but there is no guarantee.

I'm not so sure - I don't like spending other people’s money that they didn't start off with. I don't mind advising spending a little more for significant gains - more relative bang for buck - but spending ~30% more on a build for marginal gains may not be the way to go.

Given your work (seems very interesting BTW) - I suspect you already have a decent monitor - but if you were thinking of upgrading that too, or need another, I would put the saved £160 and put it towards a decent sized IPS panel at a later date.

My reasoning is that if the i5 and the i7 were giving the Ryzens a run for their money in bulk exporting/zooming 1:1 etc then the i5 would perhaps be better bang for buck - especially if the i7 was only giving you marginal gains in a particular task that you wouldn’t realise in real life terms – but at a significant extra cost.

You’re clearly leaning towards INTEL – and I can’t blame you – they’re a proven CPU. They’ve been the go to CPU for years and software/drivers have been optimised and refined around their architecture in this time. So, yes your right – you're almost guaranteed a seemless build with guaranteed results – which is definitely no small factor if time is a premium. This is the one area I can’t counter – as the Ryzen is a bit of an unknown and the fact that I have to keep mentioning BIOS/software updates to qualify my recommendation of the platform probably is statement enough.

Basically, I get the impression stability, reliability and ease of build is paramount and the INTEL build seems to tick all your boxes at present. However, you had a respectable budget of £460 and had assembled a solid build for the money. I would say if the i5-7400 was holding its own within the areas you would use regularly – then I would save your money.

The above is purely another take on the thread - if you feel the i7 will benefit your work and would warrant the extra £££ then obviously go for it.

Thanks again, Plec.

Not many would provide such in depth advice. I do appreciate it. I already have an LG 34' Ultrawide IPS (No curve) for my photo work ( Which is a hobby in reality) I have only had the monitor a few months and I love it.

I'm still deliberating at present and I'm not in a mad rush so I'll take my time. The Ryzen does look good, but as we've discussed putting the thing together with minimal fuss and with as few issues as possible is of importance to me. I've taken on board the advice regarding the i5 v i7 element also.

It would be good to hear from any folks who have put together similar Ryzen setups (with the a view NOT to overclock) just to see what their experience was like with the initial hardware setup etc.

The more I look at this stuff the more money I want to spend :|

Cheers again

Plec · 20 Apr 2017 at 15:40

obiwanquinobi` said:
Thanks again, Plec.

Not many would provide such in depth advice. I do appreciate it. I already have an LG 34' Ultrawide IPS (No curve)

Not a problem obi.

You probably dodged a bullet not buying the curved model. There are loads of blb issues out there and supposedly within manufacturer's tolerance too - so lots of disgruntled forum members. Would have been a nightmare considering your main usage.

obiwanquinobi` said:
It would be good to hear from any folks who have put together similar Ryzen setups (with the a view NOT to overclock) just to see what their experience was like with the initial hardware setup etc.

Below are the main threads of users of new Ryzen builds. You will notice that a lot of the initial teething problems get ironed out as the threads develop. The only thing you have to take into consideration is that this is an enthusiast forum so most of the systems are clocked - and so a lot of the problems are clock related or not achieving a certain speed with memory that would perfectly fine when set to expected tolerance of the MB - or future BIOS update.

Official Ryzen Owners Thread

Ryzen DDR4 Memory - What You Need to Know

obiwanquinobi` said:
The more I look at this stuff the more money I want to spend :|

We all do it - but I get a lot of satisfaction getting bang for buck along with longevity - I've manged this with two builds to date. My Q6600 G0 and my present 2500k @4.5Ghz - saved me a small fortune on upgrades. Fortunately (or unfortunately), I have friends and family who I build for so I still get to build some high end machines - but no Ryzens as yet. Suspect the first will be mine...

obiwanquinobi` · 21 Apr 2017 at 11:16

Plec said:
Not a problem obi.

You probably dodged a bullet not buying the curved model. There are loads of blb issues out there and supposedly within manufacturer's tolerance too - so lots of disgruntled forum members. Would have been a nightmare considering your main usage.

Below are the main threads of users of new Ryzen builds. You will notice that a lot of the initial teething problems get ironed out as the threads develop. The only thing you have to take into consideration is that this is an enthusiast forum so most of the systems are clocked - and so a lot of the problems are clock related or not achieving a certain speed with memory that would perfectly fine when set to expected tolerance of the MB - or future BIOS update.

Official Ryzen Owners Thread

Ryzen DDR4 Memory - What You Need to Know

We all do it - but I get a lot of satisfaction getting bang for buck along with longevity - I've manged this with two builds to date. My Q6600 G0 and my present 2500k @4.5Ghz - saved me a small fortune on upgrades. Fortunately (or unfortunately), I have friends and family who I build for so I still get to build some high end machines - but no Ryzens as yet. Suspect the first will be mine...

OK - so,

The USB controllers on my old ASUS P5Q-Deluxe are failing and I'm having chronic boot issues because of it so I've took the plunge a bit earlier than expected and ...

I've gone with the Ryzen. A couple of variations on the original spec and a bit more money. I don't upgrade or buy PC stuff often and I want this build to last me a good few years.

- Slightly different motherboard. I fancied having the extra 2x DIMM slots incase i want to add more RAM. Also, this board allows me to add a SFF PCIe Wifi card (the board is only a few inches long) without obstructing the GPU fan too much.
- I added a AIO water cooler. Never used one before and I think it could help with noise etc. I'll be turning off the disco lights, though

- Larger more roomy MATX case to take the water cooling - I like the idea of the PSU and WC Radiator in a different 'Thermal zone'. Not too keen on the side panel window but I can easily live with it (on the floor\under the desk where I can't see it)

This is what I plumped for:

£107.49 x 1 - Kingston Fury Black 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-19200C15 2400MHz Dual Channel Kit (HX424C15FB2K2/16)
£69.16 x 1 - Asrock AB350M Pro4 AMD B350 (Socket AM4) DDR4 Micro ATX Motherboard
£174.99 x 1 - AMD Ryzen 5 Six Core 1600 3.60GHz (Socket AM4) Processor - Retail
£83.29 x 1 - Fractal Design Node 804 Micro-ATX Case - Black Window
£116.66 x 1 - NZXT Kraken X52 AIO Water Cooling Unit - 240mm (I wanted a water cooling setup for the noise levels mainly)
£2.49 x 1 - NZXT AM4 Brackets

Total 664.99 inc VAT

£165 over the max original budget of £500 but the AIO cooler was £140.

Many thanks for your input, Plec. I'll let you know how I get on..

Have a great weekend

Plec · 21 Apr 2017 at 13:18

obiwanquinobi` said:
I've gone with the Ryzen. A couple of variations on the original spec and a bit more money. I don't upgrade or buy PC stuff often and I want this build to last me a good few years.

That took me by complete surprise - i honestly thought you were committed to the INTEL build. I personally think you made the right, exciting, decision - what swayed you in the end?

obiwanquinobi` said:
£107.49 x 1 - Kingston Fury Black 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-19200C15 2400MHz Dual Channel Kit (HX424C15FB2K2/16)
£69.16 x 1 - Asrock AB350M Pro4 AMD B350 (Socket AM4) DDR4 Micro ATX Motherboard
£174.99 x 1 - AMD Ryzen 5 Six Core 1600 3.60GHz (Socket AM4) Processor - Retail
£83.29 x 1 - Fractal Design Node 804 Micro-ATX Case - Black Window
£116.66 x 1 - NZXT Kraken X52 AIO Water Cooling Unit - 240mm (I wanted a water cooling setup for the noise levels mainly)
£2.49 x 1 - NZXT AM4 Brackets

Thats a lot of build for your money - and you didn't hold back in your cooler choice. You realise you have no excuse not to go for a moderate clock with a quality cooler like that strapped to the top

Wise decision regarding the DIMMS - if the format lasts you as long as you suspect, i could easily see you sticking in another 16GB in the future. Board looks very sleek - not seen that one - specs are impressive for the price.

I'm a big Fractal fan - they make solid cases and the R5 midi towers are really silent. It's a nice size and compromise for a M-ATX case - and will accommodate your beast of cooler nicely.

Look forward to your build update - hope all goes smoothly.

obiwanquinobi` · 26 Apr 2017 at 11:21

Plec said:
That took me by complete surprise - i honestly thought you were committed to the INTEL build. I personally think you made the right, exciting, decision - what swayed you in the end?

Thats a lot of build for your money - and you didn't hold back in your cooler choice. You realise you have no excuse not to go for a moderate clock with a quality cooler like that strapped to the top

Wise decision regarding the DIMMS - if the format lasts you as long as you suspect, i could easily see you sticking in another 16GB in the future. Board looks very sleek - not seen that one - specs are impressive for the price.

I'm a big Fractal fan - they make solid cases and the R5 midi towers are really silent. It's a nice size and compromise for a M-ATX case - and will accommodate your beast of cooler nicely.

Look forward to your build update - hope all goes smoothly.

Well here's a build update: ( It's not going well)

Can't get the damn thing to post at all. No signal from the OB Graphics (I've tried both the HDMI and DP)

Stuff I've checked:

The 8 Pin connector the motherboard (CPU) is connected and so is the 24 pin to the motherboard. The power supply was working fine yesterday when I took it out the old machine - it's a 'Seasonic M12II EVO Edition 750W '80 Plus Bronze Modular' and is not very old.. so I don't think its this.

I can't tell if there are any error codes because the case has no PC speaker but I'm getting power to the motherboard - the power LED is lit and the chassis fans are spinning. The power switch works but little happens once the fans spin up. It kind of runs for 30 seconds (I've counted) and then does the whole cycle again.

I've stripped everything back, no drives, no Graphics Card (using on board graphics so I can troubleshoot) I've got nothing but the bare minimum needed to boot a system connected - all disks, add in cards, headers, usb headers etc have been disconnected for troubleshooting purpose. Still can't get it to POST. I fear it might be a faulty board \ power to the CPU issue..

I will post this with my specs to the support forum see if anyone can help.

Plec · 26 Apr 2017 at 11:33

Oh no - getting a drink and looking at your post now...

obiwanquinobi` said:
Can't get the damn thing to post at all. No signal from the OB Graphics (I've tried both the HDMI and DP)

It doesn't have onboard gfx - not on the board and not in the CPU.

That's there in preparation for future chips that come out with built in gfx... :/

Do you have a spare gfx card?

eep...

Quartz · 26 Apr 2017 at 11:37

obiwanquinobi` said:
Can't get the damn thing to post at all. No signal from the OB Graphics (I've tried both the HDMI and DP)

Ryzen doesn't have inbuilt graphics, so you won't get anything (ETA ninjaed by Plec).

Have you checked that the CPU cooler is properly seated? Did you remove the plastic cover?

Plec · 26 Apr 2017 at 11:37

Scanned your posts - stick in the 970.

PHEW!

EDIT: Damn - see you've tried it.

Plec · 26 Apr 2017 at 11:43

obiwanquinobi` said:
I've stripped everything back, no drives, no Graphics Card (using on board graphics so I can troubleshoot) I've got nothing but the bare minimum needed to boot a system connected - all disks, add in cards, headers, usb headers etc have been disconnected for troubleshooting purpose. Still can't get it to POST.

Knowing now that it doesn't have onboard gfx did you try the stripped back rig with the 970 installed?

cpu
1 stick (try both)
gfx
PSU
outside of the case