Nissan Leaf: Future or Failure?

I can post more when im not mildly drunk but the Leaf is an interesting step, as is the volt. Nissan are claiming some pretty impressivly $/kWh on the leaf pack with the laminated sub pack providing good temperature control and servicability. Its pretty brisk at sub 8 sec 0-60 AFAIK and no rare earth materials used in the motor. CO2 is lower on your average Uk power blend and often before you do real well to tank on fuel comparisons where 20% of the energy you get is needed for the distilling and the petrol dollars spend on war theatres to secure supplies.

80% of the battery costs is still based on the materials so mass production will not gain much on the same chemistries.

Ive seen a few around MIRA on the A5 and im looking forward to getting a drive in one. FWIW The volt is a hybrid, mechanical drive is part of it now as pure series hybrid is inefficient compared to mech drive in charge sustain mode, here it works similar to Prius.
 
Bit of a catch 22 though. You need more supply to lower prices (I doubt it would make a significant difference though) yet you need more demand to justify more mines.

Although I do like this simple world you seem to inhabit.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
That will be go fill the demand and sustain supplies as part of a business investment to provide the material. Non of those afe geared to making cheaper batteries when people like Sanyo and LG dont mine... Come back when you have a clue?
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Perhaps you need to come back when you have a clue?

If you open new mines and technology also moves on then you will have more supply than demand potentially, so prices of the batteries will fall.

Before now there wasn't as much of a market for these materials, so no new mines were being opened, now that there is a definite market the new mines will open

Provided the market price of the materials is high enough to cover the mining costs then the price will start to fall as even more mines will open since there is the demand and they can still make a profit.
Unless we go down the OPEC cartel route where they maintain prices at a certain silly level - luckily places like USA, Aus and Canada have some of these metals ... so they can't go down the OPEC route, unfortunately most of the current mines are in China ...

Luckily batteries are also largely recyclable
 
Simon said:
That's not going to help the battery technology though, this is the biggest hurdle to overcome.
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Agreed, Li-ion is being used, and li-ion laptop batteries seem to do well to last over 2 or 3 years...

I see this new car uses Li-Ion cells, I wonder how long they last and how much they'll cost to replace? It's going to be a damn site more expensive than a laptop battery, that's for sure!

EDIT: Looks like the batteries are going to have an 8 year warranty: http://nissan-leaf.net/2010/10/26/nissan-leaf-battery-warranty-update/ but even then it doesn't really cover the gradual loss of capacity you get with li-ion cells... : http://nissan-leaf.net/2010/11/16/follow-up-nissan-leaf-battery-warranty/

GRADUAL CAPACITY LOSS
The Lithium-ion battery (EV battery), like all lithium-ion batteries, will experience gradual capacity loss with time and use. Loss of battery capacity due to or resulting from gradual capacity loss is NOT covered under this warranty.
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I wonder how many people who have bought these realise that they'll only be getting half the range after a few years...
 
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I would love this to succeed but it is too expensive.

For me, an all electric car would still require me to have a petrol car for long trips.
 
Quick let's spend millions to increase supply of battery raw materials so we can sell our product for less and let someone else make cheaper batteries.

See I have a clue


Did you see the bit about the leaf using no rare metals ?
 
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rypt said:
Perhaps you need to come back when you have a clue?

If you open new mines and technology also moves on then you will have more supply than demand potentially, so prices of the batteries will fall.

Before now there wasn't as much of a market for these materials, so no new mines were being opened, now that there is a definite market the new mines will open

Provided the market price of the materials is high enough to cover the mining costs then the price will start to fall as even more mines will open since there is the demand and they can still make a profit.
Unless we go down the OPEC cartel route where they maintain prices at a certain silly level - luckily places like USA, Aus and Canada have some of these metals ... so they can't go down the OPEC route, unfortunately most of the current mines are in China ...

Luckily batteries are also largely recyclable
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You have the media installed mind set i see? Lithium is mainly China? No, thats rare earth magnetswhich are used in MOTORS not batteries, althougb the Leaf does not feature them, a benefit of pure Ev when your not pushed for underbonnet space. I said slready 80% on current chemistries... Ie lithi manganese, colbalt or iron phosphate.
 
Electric cars are waste of time. A car that has very little chance of taking you from outskirts of M25 to the city and back on a winter morning/night without spending few hours glued to the plug let alone 6 days and 5 charges it will need to take a family of 4 and their holiday gear from London down to Cornwall at motorway speeds. Unless there is a sudden break through in power storage and antigravity technology, the Leaf is just a tool for measuring if stupidity and deep pockets coincide.

I wish car manufacturers just stopped doing expensive PR exercises and focused on alternative fuels for combustion engines instead.
 
Simon said:
Do you know how much batteries weigh ?
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It is an automated system from below the car

v0n said:
I wish car manufacturers just stopped doing expensive PR exercises and focused on alternative fuels for combustion engines instead.
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An electric motor is always going to be more efficient than combustion in an engine, what we need is a good medium for storing energy be it a battery or hydrogen or something else
 
v0n said:
Electric cars are waste of time. A car that has very little chance of taking you from outskirts of M25 to the city and back on a winter morning/night without spending few hours glued to the plug let alone 6 days and 5 charges it will need to take a family of 4 and their holiday gear from London down to Cornwall at motorway speeds. Unless there is a sudden break through in power storage and antigravity technology, the Leaf is just a tool for measuring if stupidity and deep pockets coincide.

I wish car manufacturers just stopped doing expensive PR exercises and focused on alternative fuels for combustion engines instead.
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Good job it has quick charge then...

Coal, wind, solar, uranium amd gas are alternative fuels.

Lets not forget the opportunities a gas turbine presents when it performs as a genset to an Electric drivetrain.
 
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