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No commercial photography allowed

Discussion in 'Photography & Video' started by ethan, Sep 14, 2018 at 6:16 PM.

  1. ethan

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 16, 2005

    Posts: 6,584

    Location: What used to be a UK

    I went to photograph the Weeping Poppies display at Middleport Pottery with a view to hoping to eventually sell and display my photographs. On finishing I noticed a number of signs saying "no commercial photography allowed".

    Does anybody know if this would actually be enforceable? Seems quite stupid really since you can photograph the poppies from the canal towpath which is a public footpath.
     
  2. socreative

    Gangster

    Joined: Dec 29, 2006

    Posts: 476

    Unless the territory is privately owned you can shoot there.
     
  3. EGuitarStar

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Dec 23, 2009

    Posts: 2,276

    Location: Earth

    These days anyone with an actual camera body is classed as a pro yet smart phone users are fine. Though we all know some of the higher end smart phones capture great quality images.

    Here in London I get this often that one place is private or I need a permit. It's a shame but yea gotta live with it.
     
  4. EGuitarStar

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Dec 23, 2009

    Posts: 2,276

    Location: Earth

  5. Snapshot

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 11, 2006

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    Location: Wiltshire

    It may well be classed as a work of art where the creator (or commissioner) owns the copyright.
     
  6. ethan

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 16, 2005

    Posts: 6,584

    Location: What used to be a UK

    Perhaps as a direct copy but not for something you contribute to or can express as your own?

    This is where it begins to get a bit confusing and somewhat silly. For example, I noticed there was no sign saying artists not allowed or no painting.

    I'm sure I read somewhere that if you could produce a piece of work constituting 75% of your own idea/input you couldn't be done for copyright violation regardless of the notice or the medium in which you choose to express it. I'm a digital artist.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018 at 7:11 PM
  7. Russinating

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 27, 2005

    Posts: 14,735

    Location: Bristol

    You're not adding much by taking a photo. Even then, I'm not sure on the legitimacy of your above statement.
     
  8. ethan

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 16, 2005

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    Location: What used to be a UK

    The photo is being used as a reference/ base on which to produce something that isn't a direct copy.
     
  9. Russinating

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 27, 2005

    Posts: 14,735

    Location: Bristol

    Well then the photo itself is fine because it's not commercial. Nobody could speak for the copy.
     
  10. Combat squirrel

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Aug 7, 2004

    Posts: 9,484

    No, not at all - if the land is private and it says no commercial photography - then no you CANNOT make money off your photos - I'm a full time photographer so know the law on this.

    This is simply because if the land is private and they invested in what your going to see, the owners wish to make the profit.

    You would have to be specific if the display is on public land and the display itself is private property or not - it gets more complex here because you can have a privately run venture on public land if they were granted a public land use license.

    If they were granted a license from the council on public land for a privately owned area of interest/display of some sort in many cases you can still enforce a copyright law.

    It's the same for example with drone photography - I can fly a drone freely, if someone wants to pay me to fly it and take a photo for them, I need a license.
     
  11. Combat squirrel

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Aug 7, 2004

    Posts: 9,484

    It doesn't matter, if the digital work produced is obviously directly descended from a photo and you then make money, you can still be done for copyright IF they hold a license/right to enforce no commercial photos.

    If you take a photo as a reference to work from - your net result is commercial gain.

    If you take a snap on your phone, then work from that and produce your work then delete the original photo......still technically not allowed but hard to prove.
     
  12. ethan

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 16, 2005

    Posts: 6,584

    Location: What used to be a UK

    I hadn't previously mentioned this but the base photo was taken from a public canal tow-path not on their premises. I take your point about deleting the reference material. Do you still think the no commercial photography sign still applies to photographs taken from public land opposite the display?

    Where I was standing there were no prohibitions listed along the tow path, only from within the premise's in Middleport Pottery.

    Nothing was mentioned about reproductions based on natural/digital media that can be painted anywhere and no commercial photography must apply specifically to a commercial photograph (only)?

    I remember a recent copyright case involving Toblerone trying and failing to copyright their chocolate bar shape because somebody came along with the same Shape bar but with a different name.

    This is a same shape bottle kiln, painted instead of photographed from reference material taken from a public canal tow-path.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018 at 5:59 PM
  13. Minusorange

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 25, 2005

    Posts: 2,290

    https://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/technique/expert_advice/street-photography-and-the-law-96304

    Laws are so convoluted :confused:
     
  14. And

    Hitman

    Joined: Dec 7, 2002

    Posts: 678

    They sell souvenirs, presumably things like postcards of the display, so surely that is what they are seeking to protect.
     
  15. ethan

    Soldato

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    Location: What used to be a UK

    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018 at 7:09 PM
  16. Minusorange

    Wise Guy

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    You probably need to ask a business lawyer really to get a definitive answer but I bet if you asked 2 the answers would be slightly different :D
     
  17. ethan

    Soldato

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    Posts: 6,584

    Location: What used to be a UK