Nokia: "Going the Android Route is like Peeing in your Pants for Warmth"

What the guy obviously meant is that, while Nokia makes good phones, it's not enough to differentiate themselves from their competitors on hardware alone. If they had jumped on Android then it would have just been a temporary fix. By sticking to their own OSs they get the extra revenue from the Ovi store and are basically building a platform, like Apple is, or like Google (in a different, software-only way) is.

Besides, if Meego is basically "Maemo improved" then it should be at least as good as Android if not better, and has the advantage of being FULL Linux rather than just Linux-derived. If you look at all the ridiculous uses people find for the N900 you'll see that it's still the most hackable, versatile phone around even though it's been surpassed in specs by more recent ones.
 
Nokia's smartphone sales increased 41% year-on-year last quarter. For every 1 customer who leaves, they're finding 1.4 new customers.

Very flawed statistics. The only explanation I see for that growth is if Nokia simply lowered bracket of what they consider to be "smartphone" to improve numbers for their shareholders, otherwise - on real world smartphone market - Nokia is pretty much dead. I have to say - at this moment, with one single exception of E series, I can't think of anyone with Nokia smartphone in my immediate circle of friends, coworkers or family. I know people with ancient 3, 5 and 6 series, monochrome screen and early colour screen Nokias - kids and old people mostly, but almost no one with Nokia smartphone. Those of my coworkers and friends who had N series Nokias, couldn't wait to replace them with anything else (mostly iphones). Even in "linux" circles, I don't know of anyone who picked N900 over Android. I was the only one considering it (and decided not to, seeing as it was hopelessly slow developing product, with immediate, unprecedented platform switch that followed). To see any statistics suggesting Nokia smartphone customer base is at the moment growing is a true surprise to me. And unless there is some sort of untapped emerging "smartphone" market in some part of the world overflowing with Nokias at this point in time - I can't treat such static as anything else than creative product of PR.

Besides, if Meego is basically "Maemo improved" then it should be at least as good as Android if not better, and has the advantage of being FULL Linux rather than just Linux-derived. If you look at all the ridiculous uses people find for the N900 you'll see that it's still the most hackable, versatile phone around even though it's been surpassed in specs by more recent ones.

The thing is - smartphone user that requires hackable device is a niche within niche of a niche market. The percentage of users who would pay £500, £600 then wait 6 months for landscape keyboard, because everyone was working on.. I don't know - controlling playstation from shell on the screen, or whatever they were doing with Maemo, is almost as insane and loss making as previous Nokia flops - their satellite receivers come to mind. They literally slid from class leader to slowest kid in school, in half a decade. It's painful to watch.
 
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Very flawed statistics. The only explanation I see for that growth is if Nokia simply lowered bracket of what they consider to be "smartphone" to improve numbers for their shareholders, otherwise - on real world smartphone market - Nokia is pretty much dead.
My guess is it's accurate, you have to remember that in the developing world Nokia are a MASSIVE brand-name. I mean, sure, they're big over here, but in places like Nigeria "Nokia" is a genericised trademark, it basically MEANS "mobile phone" (It might've been Kenya rather than Nigeria, it's been around a year since I read this so I don't remember, but it was from Time Magazine so it's a reliable source), and in places like India they part-own large bits of the network, so you can imagine it'd be easy to get providers to push their phones. (Nokia-Siemens Networks sell equipment to mobile operators everywhere, the UK included, but in some countries they actually have a stake in their clients' networks) TBH I don't think any other smartphone manufacturer with the exception of Samsung even has the manufacturing capacity to service the vast increasing demand for them in the developing world, so I don't doubt that those stats are true. We're not talking about their top-tier flagship phones, but the "mainstream" smartphones of course.


The thing is - smartphone user that requires hackable device is a niche within niche of a niche market. The percentage of users who would pay £500, £600 then wait 6 months for landscape keyboard, because everyone was working on.. I don't know - controlling playstation from shell on the screen, or whatever they were doing with Maemo, is almost as insane and loss making as previous Nokia flops - their satellite receivers come to mind. They literally slid from class leader to slowest kid in school, in half a decade. It's painful to watch.

No, you're totally right, Maemo development was stupidly slow and it's unacceptable that many of the missing features on the N900 still aren't fixed a year on! My guess is they had pulled everyone apart from 2 coders off it to get them working on Maemo 6 even before the platform was abandoned. And when that happened so many of their supporters abandoned them feeling bitter and betrayed (not just consumers but also contributors to the Maemo project and app makers). The whole thing was a fiasco. It was a difficult decision and I think they made the right one, but they definitely didn't implement it properly: they took a good long time to clarify that Meego is essentailly Maemo 6, that it wasn't a total platform abandonment, and they flip-flopped so many times on whether Meego would run on the N900 before finally settling on yes!

Still, they do have one ace up their sleeve: if Intel somehow manages to pull a chip that can successfully compete with ARM CPUs on smartphones, Meego will probably be the best OS to run them on. There's an x86 version of Android out there somewhere, but I have no idea how well it runs or whether apps written for the ARM version will work on it natively. Still, I doubt Intel's really working on anything that small, x86 support is more likely to a thing for the tablet market.
 
Very flawed statistics. The only explanation I see for that growth is if Nokia simply lowered bracket of what they consider to be "smartphone" to improve numbers for their shareholders, otherwise - on real world smartphone market - Nokia is pretty much dead.

Nokia's definition of a smartphone hasn't changed since they first released the 9210 Communicator eight years ago. Anything with a sophisticated, open operating system (i.e. Symbian or Maemo but not S30/S40) counts.

Independent market analysts agree with and use this definition in their statistics.

To see any statistics suggesting Nokia smartphone customer base is at the moment growing is a true surprise to me.

Nokia are a global company. The UK only makes up 1% of their addressable market. It's very hard to judge the overall success of a handset manufacturer based on limited observations in one UK city.
 
So Tunney basically you're saying everything is hunky dorey for Nokia and having a 95% market share in Ethiopia is the way forward?

I'm interested as to why their shares are worth just a quarter of what they were three years ago then.
 
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So Tunney basically you're saying everything is hunky dorey for Nokia and having a 95% market share in Ethiopia is the way forward?

I'm interested as to why their shares are worth just a quarter of what they were three years ago then.

Don't forget, he also said that "Nokia" literally means mobile phone over there. Does that mean that everyone uses a Nokia because there isn't much choice. Surely that's going to mess with the stats somewhat.

With regard to shares, well that's easy. The iPhone is probably the main reason for that, and whilst I don't like the iPhone, it has shown the way forward for mobile devices for the masses. I.e. Something easy to use, pleasing on the eye and really simple. Android is now also competing in this market and doing quite well. Then you look at Nokia and Symbian. Yes, I agree that technically it can do pretty much everything Android can do, but why do they make it so difficult, clunky, slow and awful to look at?
 
So Tunney basically you're saying everything is hunky dorey for Nokia and having a 95% market share in Ethiopia is the way forward?

Absolutely not. I'm saying that despite what most people think, sales are increasing and that's generally a good thing.

The point I'm trying to make is that compared with the other traditional handset manufacturers, Nokia is actually pretty healthy. Nokia has plenty of problems but they've proven smarter than SE, Moto, LG, Samsung et al. They're being destroying by Apple and RIM but they've done pretty well considering their starting position. Apple in particular came in and did things that the operators never would have allowed Nokia to do.

Android won't solve their problems. If Nokia made an Android phone, I'd consider replacing my iPhone with one. However, Nokia has to look at the bigger picture before making critical business decisions. Unfortunately, most people don't have a good enough understanding of the industry to realise the factors that Nokia has to consider.

I'm interested as to why their shares are worth just a quarter of what they were three years ago then.

Share price very rarely correlates with the true worth of a company. Look at Microsoft. Massively, massively undervalued by the market because it's not a "cool" company any more.

People buy and sell shares based on where they think the share price is going to go. Smarter people buy and sell shares based on where they think other people will think the share price is going to go. Even smarter people...
 
Apart from Android's iOS like UI, is there anything android can do that Symbian cant?

LOL is this a troll post? If so ill feed you.

The iOS "UI" is a homescreen with icons/dock. So how exactly is Android like iOS in anyway with the UI design?

Maybe you should take a trip over to the post your phone destop thread and take a look for yourself.


There you go troll, enjoy your food
 
LOL is this a troll post? If so ill feed you.

The iOS "UI" is a homescreen with icons/dock. So how exactly is Android like iOS in anyway with the UI design?

Maybe you should take a trip over to the post your phone destop thread and take a look for yourself.


There you go troll, enjoy your food

Actually, its a serious question. Anytime someone mentions symbian in this forum, they always get shot down by people saying Andriod is better, etc without actually mentioning why. I too have yet to find a reason why as well
 
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Actually, its a serious question. Anytime someone mentions symbian in this forum, they always get shot down by people saying Andriod is better, etc without actually mentioning why. I too have yet to find a reason why as well


In purely superficial way it looks better, even plain android looks better then Symbian, the Symbian homescreen looks just like the homescreen on the Windows 3.1 computer at work. In short Android can be made to look gorgeous Symbian looks utter garbage in comparison. In consistencys where you have to double tap or single tap on menu items. Software buttons that take up a quarter of the screen on the right all the time for no good reason. OVI store is inferior to Android Market. Just a few things i can think of off the top of my head.
 
I would love to ask that guy how is Nokia using Android any different from Nokia, Samsung, Sony Ericsson, Motorola and countless others using the Symbian?

Nokia remind me a little bit of Nintendo from 10 years ago. They have been been replaced as the market's number one by a flashy new competitor and they are unsure of how to counter.
 
I don't care too much about the story but I think the simile that headlines it has made my morning. For what it's worth I'm glad Nokia are sticking to their strategy because, good or bad, there's little worse for a company than vacilitating - sure, at times you need to know when to cut your losses but at the moment they've got a clear strategy and have invested a lot into it so cutting and running into something that will essentially make them beholden to another company possibly isn't any better.
 
I would love to ask that guy how is Nokia using Android any different from Nokia, Samsung, Sony Ericsson, Motorola and countless others using the Symbian?

Well, Nokia effectively owns Symbian. It's an open source project but the vast majority of the developers working on it work for Nokia.

But I agree that there's no reason why the other players would particularly favour Symbian over Android.

The problem that Moto, SE, Samsung and LG have had is that they simply haven't had a focused smartphone strategy ever. Making smartphones is an expensive and time-consuming business. If you spread your engineering talent and marketing budget too thinly, you don't get anywhere. Nokia has sold 300 million smartphones. How many have any of the other players sold?

Successful smartphone manufacturers tend to own the platform. The only company to buck the trend is HTC, whose first-mover advantage has worked out very well for them.
 
Well good that Nokia are sticking to their guns. If I ever wanted a new phone in the future for a change; I would like something NEW and not just have a choice of Android, BB or Apple. Android is way over saturated right now. Nearly every phone is running on Android and also the gazillion tablets, PMPs and other electronic devices that are coming out. That's boring.
 
Cut-down versions of Symbian are used extensively for dumbphones too. I don't know if other manufacturers have to pay royalties to Nokia or anything like that. Even if yes, that income is probably puny. But if Qt really manages to make apps run on all Symbian devices, even the older, more restricted versions, that'll open up a huge new market for devs on the Ovi store! I'm talking exponentially bigger than iOS, Android and RIM combined!
 
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