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Non Labour voters - What one thing might change your mind?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by g67575, 5 May 2021.

  1. platypus

    Caporegime

    Joined: 25 Jul 2003

    Posts: 39,412

    Location: Rhône-Alpes+Cambridge

  2. Uther

    Capodecina

    Joined: 16 Jun 2005

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  3. Secret_Window

    Soldato

    Joined: 10 Aug 2006

    Posts: 5,080

    I could be wrong, but I think they are trying to win over Murdoch as was done in 1997. Labour know they can't win an election with The Sun, The Daily Mail etc not on their side. But I am not even sure it would be possible for Labour to win their support again after the way things ended between Blair and Murdoch. If that isn't the plan, then I think a electoral reform manifesto pledge surely has to be the angle they have to go to win people over moving forward.
     
  4. platypus

    Caporegime

    Joined: 25 Jul 2003

    Posts: 39,412

    Location: Rhône-Alpes+Cambridge

    I know. The future is bleak isn't it :(.

    Alongside blaming the EU for everything they can now just covid wash anything they want. It makes me so despondent.
     
  5. platypus

    Caporegime

    Joined: 25 Jul 2003

    Posts: 39,412

    Location: Rhône-Alpes+Cambridge

    Getting into bed with Murdoch would not be the thing that makes me vote Labour ;).
     
  6. Energize

    Caporegime

    Joined: 12 Mar 2004

    Posts: 29,441

    Location: England

    I totally agree, capital gains should be treated the same as any other type of income and be subjected to tax at the same rate. One income tax rate for all income above a personal allowance please.
     
  7. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 50,154

    Location: Plymouth

    I'd go one further and replace the personal allowance with an integrated universal benefit entitlement that's effectively then offsets the tax up to a certain level.

    Taxation and benefits are so closely related they shouldn't be considered separately, otherwise you end up with ludicrous systems like we currently have.
     
  8. Vanilla

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 9,412

    Just an observation but in London I don't think it is about Labour flipping voters to their side I believe they are alienating much of their hardcore base. It's going to be about retaining their voters, not winning others. I've never seen so many life-long Labour voters not only decide to vote for another party but actively campaign against any labour councillor.

    In London many labour wards used central money to push in 'Low Traffic Neighbourhoods' or something. They did it using COVID powers so they wouldn't have to consult - they could deploy and consult on the way. These had been terribly implemented in the past and ripped out. This time it's no better. Access is being sealed of with cars only able to access from a few directions. The intention is to make driving so miserable people flip to other means. The actual result is these people just take another route, main roads get blocked, access roads get blocked, late buses, pollution pushed onto other roads, house prices go up inside these zones but down elsewhere.

    Conservative boroughs maybe implemented these and got rid of them. Labour held fast.

    I've never seen so much anger. People who didn't even know what a councillor was know who their councillors are and know them on sight. Independents have started to get ready to run en masse, even winning a seat (due to a someone standing down I think) in labour Tower Hamlets.

    Labour is on the decline in London.
     
  9. g67575

    Mobster

    Joined: 30 Jun 2019

    Posts: 3,241

    .
     
  10. a1ex2001

    Capodecina

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    Location: Here and There...

    The next election was a foregone conclusion as soon as the last result was declared no government is going to loose that majority in 5 years under our rubbish electoral system. The conservatives will win with a reduced majority, it is the following election labour should be targeting and this will all happen under a new leader as they don’t survive loosing elections anymore.
     
  11. g67575

    Mobster

    Joined: 30 Jun 2019

    Posts: 3,241

    I think it could be another hung parliament. The DUP won't necessarily have enough MPs for the government to pass votes, so Labour may be able to form a coalition. This is what they should plan for, not an improbable socialist /Corbyn style majority government.
     
  12. Moley

    Mobster

    Joined: 29 Aug 2006

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    Location: In a world of my own

    I'm a paid up Tory Party member but could see myself voting Labour if they did this:

    Separate from the unions.
    Repeal laws that make offending people or hurting feelings an offence (actually I'd vote for any party that promised this).
    Reform the House of Lords.
    Enact laws outlawing transitions for people who have not gone through puberty.
    Reinforce the rights of female not to have to share spaces with males - and vice versa.

    There are probably others but it's late and I'm tired.
     
  13. g67575

    Mobster

    Joined: 30 Jun 2019

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    I'm not aware of any laws that specifically make it illegal to do either of these things.

    However, the Conservatives have passed some statutory laws that put restrictions on peaceful protest (for example, short time limits).

    I'm not sure what you mean regarding the second thing. You want there to be restrictions on people of different genders sharing the same space? To protect women I assume?
     
    Last edited: 13 Sep 2021
  14. Tony Edwards

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 4 Feb 2018

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    So still vote Tory despite them doing none of that and then expect a party that is all for peoples rights to do it?
     
  15. Moley

    Mobster

    Joined: 29 Aug 2006

    Posts: 3,724

    Location: In a world of my own

    Well duh. The post was aimed at non labour voters and wanted to know what would make me change my mind, is it not obvious that in order for me and others to change our minds the Labour party needs to offer more than our existing vote of choice....?
     
  16. fez

    Capodecina

    Joined: 22 Aug 2008

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    Location: Tunbridge Wells

    They would have to become less pathetic on social justice issues and stop peddling the completely unproven ******** that the woke left pedal on critical race theory, sexism and every other perceived discrimination without proof.

    They would have to drop their idealistic policies that assume we live in a star trek like utopia.

    Promise proper taxation of the wealthy and the closure of tax loopholes.

    Start running the country based on scientific data rather than feelings.

    Push a very strong green agenda that is actually actionable. Use nuclear. Push green tech that people can put in their homes that won't bankrupt them, ruin their homes or require massive increases to their energy bills. We don't all live in homes that can be better insulated without knocking 10 of thousands off the value of our homes with the added kick in the teeth that we spent 10,000+ for the pleasure of doing it.

    Honestly the main ones are green agenda, proper taxation of the rich and stopping the rot when it comes to social justice issues.

    I won't vote for the Tories next election but I doubt I will be voting for Labour either. Neither party are fit to run the country. Labour would probably be marginally better.
     
  17. g67575

    Mobster

    Joined: 30 Jun 2019

    Posts: 3,241


    I'm not sure any of these things apply to the current Labour frontbench. Although just like the Tories, there are outliers on the backbenches. MPs can't be removed by their party, only deselected on a party list, at the next byelection /general election.

    On the last point, I find it difficult to agree. Policies that genuinely make a difference to the environment will require some sacrifice, otherwise politicians are only making small gestures, to deal with a massive problem that needs to be addressed imminently, not in 10 or 20 years. How can you have a 'very strong green agenda', without committing to plans that would require serious public investment?

    Aside from green policies for homes (like improving home insulation for example), there's other areas where the government has not invested, like in making the transition to electric vehicles. Two things they could do here are subsidising electric vehicle battery production (to bring EV costs down, inline with petrol vehicles), and more importantly, subsidies for electric vehicle charge points across the UK.
     
    Last edited: 13 Sep 2021
  18. Mr Jack

    Caporegime

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    Location: Nordfriesland, Germany

    The irony is strong with this one.
     
  19. GordyR

    Soldato

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    Location: Kent

    Indeed, I spat out my coffee reading that. :D
     
  20. fez

    Capodecina

    Joined: 22 Aug 2008

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    Location: Tunbridge Wells

    Care to explain? CRT isn't based on pure data, its partly based on peoples feelings and biases and reading data through the lens of racism. It does no one any good to see every issue affecting black people as a race issue. Its also not set in stone, its a set of ideas so I'm not sure how what I am suggesting is ironic. CRT is not looking at data and making the best decisions based on it. I'm not saying its all wrong but theres plenty of it that I don't agree with.

    Oh I'm not suggesting that we don't need serious investment but some of the current plans are awful. You cannot expect people to drastically modify their homes, quite a lot of which are very very hard to modify and replace their perfectly good boilers with systems that are far more expensive and don't function anywhere near as well. I won't be taking what could easily be a £50K loss on my home by insulating the outside or inside of my Edwardian house to save a few hundred pounds a year (if im lucky).

    If you made electric as cheap as IC cars you would completely destroy the value of peoples cars and they still wouldn't be able to afford a new electric one. We haven't got the grid capacity or storage to feed everyone having an electric car.

    They need to seriously start investing in infrastructure to providing charging for EVs and also the grid capacity and storage to run it. The future runs on electricity and we don't even have the capacity at the moment to operate without burning coal. Its embarrassing.
     
    Last edited: 13 Sep 2021