Non Labour voters - What one thing might change your mind?

Soldato
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It is kind of the other way around - they are attracted to that because of who they are.

Some of the key people have resigned from Momentum, such as Laura Parker and Jon Lansman, since Corbyn was leader of Labour.

Jon Lansman founded Momentum, so maybe there's some hope they can change, if Starmer can get some of his supporters into the organisation.
 
Soldato
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Worth remembering the Labour Right's vote of no confidence in Corbyn back in 2016! Actual Labour MPs, not just a grassroots political group, and when he was well under a year in position.

That's their right to be fair, many MPs at the time were well aware of his unpopularity with many voters, they had a leader who did not represent the views of most of the parliamentary Labour Party.
 
Soldato
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Only way to make labour electable again is to purge all of the hard left, move to just left of centre and get a leader who doesn't just sit on the fence and moan about the Tories. Actually give some good alternatives
 
Soldato
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You seem quite quick to judge, what makes you think Labour members or voters are all like this?

It doesn't need to be all though, a small vocal minority will put off a lot of people, it does feel like the left is somewhat more 'guilty' of this, but probably not really.
 
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A credible plan for growing the economy, not the public sector. Creating more real jobs and not tax funded public sector ones.

I believe this to be beyond their capability so won't be holding my breath.
 
Soldato
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A credible plan for growing the economy, not the public sector. Creating more real jobs and not tax funded public sector ones.

I believe this to be beyond their capability so won't be holding my breath.

No government can just magic private sector jobs out of nowhere. They could offer subsidies and tax cuts to some companies though, is that what would like Labour to do? Both this, and creating jobs in the public sector would be expensive. Or, do you mean public investment in projects /infrastructure to provide more jobs and economic growth?
 
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No government can just magic private sector jobs out of nowhere. They could offer subsidies and tax cuts to some companies though, is that what would like Labour to do? Both this, and creating jobs in the public sector would be expensive. Or, do you mean public investment in projects /infrastructure to provide more jobs and economic growth?

Not growing the size of the state and therefore taxes to pay for it is more likely to provide more private sector jobs though as it keeps wages more competitive in the sense that everyone won't be demanding higher wages to cope with higher taxes. The tax cuts don't necessarily cost if the result is growing the economy and getting a bigger total tax receipt from that greater success. They could also do away with IR35 and embrace people working as freelancers, assist entrepreneurs and a percentage of those will create new jobs. Could also cut taxes to small companies under a certain threshold of workers and turnover and increase it for the larger ones such as the Amazon's or when I say increase it, actually collect what they should be contributing if they weren't offsetting their UK sales against expenditure elsewhere.
 
Soldato
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Could also cut taxes to small companies under a certain threshold of workers and turnover and increase it for the larger ones such as the Amazon's or when I say increase it, actually collect what they should be contributing if they weren't offsetting their UK sales against expenditure elsewhere.
I like your idea, perhaps they should also cut taxes for small companies that pay their workers well in order to encourage them to do so (I'm not an expert, just thinking aloud).
 
Soldato
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No government can just magic private sector jobs out of nowhere. They could offer subsidies and tax cuts to some companies though, is that what would like Labour to do? Both this, and creating jobs in the public sector would be expensive. Or, do you mean public investment in projects /infrastructure to provide more jobs and economic growth?

But there are things they could do, like allow pension funds to directly invest in UK infrastructure. One of Gordon Browns wheezes was to further limit the risk holdings of UK pension funds underpinning Gilt sales he wanted to make but locking them out of direct investment in infrastructure. UK wind farms, utilities etc are often directly invested in by foreign pension funds but not UK ones. The additional capital that might flow into infrastructure if UK pension funds were able to invest would be a boost to the economy.
Reducing the cost of moving house would improve the economy by increasing job mobility. We all complain about the preponderance of the South East in our economy yet even if you move jobs out it's viciously expensive for people to move to take economic opportunities.
A national plan to reduce the cost of child care, for too many people the choice is work or child care because of the expense this has lifetime impacts on womens earnings and hits productivity as competent young women leave the job market.
There are things that can be done but Labour normally want to throw cash at the problem first, second and last. I think there is genuine room for Labour to differentiate themselves from the Conservatives without having to promise jam today, jam tomorrow, jam for everyone.
 
Soldato
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But there are things they could do, like allow pension funds to directly invest in UK infrastructure. One of Gordon Browns wheezes was to further limit the risk holdings of UK pension funds underpinning Gilt sales he wanted to make but locking them out of direct investment in infrastructure. UK wind farms, utilities etc are often directly invested in by foreign pension funds but not UK ones. The additional capital that might flow into infrastructure if UK pension funds were able to invest would be a boost to the economy.

Out of interest, whats the advantage of getting uk pension funds to invest in infrastructure over alternative sources like government borrowing?
 
Soldato
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I'm in a safe Conservative seat. The only thing Labour could do to get me to vote for them is to be in with a realistic shot of beating the Tory candidate. The Lib Dems are the only party that comes anywhere close to the Cons around here and they still trail by a massive margin.

Unless I move to a constituency with a different voting demographic, I'm unlikely to vote Labour for the foreseeable future.
 
Soldato
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I don't think there is anything Labour could do to get my vote. From my perspective, they're really not even trying for my vote.

Labours tactics are very obvious - they've given up on older voters. They're targetting those who don't know better - students.
 
Soldato
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Labours tactics are very obvious - they've given up on older voters. They're targetting those who don't know better - students.
They've abandoned the youth vote HARD under Starmer.

There are better stats I've seen (I think Starmer's net rating with younger Labour voters is almost into negative territory, after being something like +25 a year ago), but the bottom graph here tells a story:

 
Soldato
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I'm not surprised. Corbyn stood for a revolution - which I can understand being very popular with young people facing a future with massive debt and never owning a house - I don't blame them.
 
Soldato
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Out of interest, whats the advantage of getting uk pension funds to invest in infrastructure over alternative sources like government borrowing?
Income from UK infrastructure is kept in the UK. So wind farms for instance, currently all those subsidies are paying for Dutch teachers pensions* instead of UK workers pensions. Also Governments can be notoriously loathe to borrow but pension funds are always looking for good long term investments. UK pension schemes also struggle to find good returns within the risk profiles allowed. Toll bridges, wind farms, etc return reliable amounts for decades.

*in one example the Netherlands national teachers pension scheme was a very large early investor in offshore windfarms garnering healthy returns on legislatively backed subsidies.
 
Soldato
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I'm not surprised. Corbyn stood for a revolution - which I can understand being very popular with young people facing a future with massive debt and never owning a house - I don't blame them.
I think the language around Corbyn is a little emotional. He's a traditional lefty, nothing radical other than how far away we'd gotten from that being allowed into the discourse.

Certainly not a 'revolution', just a change of philosophy.
 
Man of Honour
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I think the language around Corbyn is a little emotional. He's a traditional lefty, nothing radical other than how far away we'd gotten from that being allowed into the discourse.

Certainly not a 'revolution', just a change of philosophy.

It's not a change, it's a throwback. There's a reason why noone who is old enough to remember such policies or the aftermath in action would consider it again.
 
Soldato
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It's not a change, it's a throwback. There's a reason why noone who is old enough to remember such policies or the aftermath in action would consider it again.
Is the reason that they've made their fortune and now have vested interest in things not changing?

**** young people, I guess.
 
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