Noob question - Why can't we just have one lead to TV and then one lead to Amp?

lude1962 · 4 Jul 2016 at 19:44

NeilFawcett said:
BUT! It would all be so much move conventient with:-

Bluray & Sky & media player HDMIs --> TV --> Amp.

But I think others have mentioned we're into the realms of copyright and goodness knows what that prevents the TV from allow DTS etc out the back of it?

So you want the tv manufacturers to build in hdmi pass through to drive an avr that already has hdmi pass through.It has to be hdmi as optical only supports stereo and maybe in some cases lpcm.
DTS and dolby chips and licensing also costs money.
Its not worth the tv manufacturers messing around with the extra cost/complexity for a possible gain in sales of 0.000000001%.
Could you get one of those flash harmonys to switch all the sources etc on and off to to make things more convenient?

NeilF · 4 Jul 2016 at 21:32

crinkleshoes said:
My query is... why do you want Sky to come through your TV audio instead of amp audio?

Because 99% of the time its just the kids or us (parents) watching something we don't need through the amp

In my case I guess I'd just wire it up as per #19

NeilF · 4 Jul 2016 at 21:36

lude1962 said:
So you want the tv manufacturers to build in hdmi pass through to drive an avr that already has hdmi pass through.It has to be hdmi as optical only supports stereo and maybe in some cases lpcm.
DTS and dolby chips and licensing also costs money.
Its not worth the tv manufacturers messing around with the extra cost/complexity for a possible gain in sales of 0.000000001%.
Could you get one of those flash harmonys to switch all the sources etc on and off to to make things more convenient?

I understand the costs. But surely I'm not mad in suggesting

DEVICES --> TV --> AMP

...makes some sense?

Consider the amp setup? One input that never changes

You're changing source on the TV so that output immediately goes to the amp... Done! And if you don't turn the Amp on, you still get sound through the TV...

But I understand the licensing/processor costs etc are most likely the reason why it's not done.

BUT QUESTION: What happens for example if your Smart TV has Plex or Amazon or Netflix? How does its (DTS, Dolby) sound get to your amp?

Mr.Cookie · 4 Jul 2016 at 22:37

My amp is set to pass through skybox, so with the amp off it just uses tv speaker, any more serious watching usually involves the amp and projector.
However before I got the denon i did use to go device -> tv -> amp, the amp had no hdmi so used tv (LG) optical out to yammy amp (full 5.1) and 4 devices connected to tv (sky, bluray, xbox and playstation)

TheVoice · 4 Jul 2016 at 22:40

NeilFawcett said:
Because 99% of the time its just the kids or us (parents) watching something we don't need through the amp

In my case I guess I'd just wire it up as per #19

Are you saving it for special occasions or something?

Not sure what you're still confused about really; it's already been established that you can connect everything to your TV and have it output the audio to the AV receiver if you so wish, but it's dependent on your TV outputting the correct audio formats whereas there's no such issue if everything is connected to the receiver first. For example, the utterly awful Sony Android TV I had would output proper 5.1 back to an AV receiver whereas the Samsung I replaced it with will not.

Bluecube · 4 Jul 2016 at 22:43

NeilFawcett said:
BUT QUESTION: What happens for example if your Smart TV has Plex or Amazon or Netflix? How does its (DTS, Dolby) sound get to your amp?

Most modern TVs have ARC on at least one of their HDMI ports which feeds the sound back to the amp. Or you could use an optical out if that's available.

The whole point of having an amp though is to use it. I don't see why you would want to spend so much money on one and not use it 99% of the time.

dholdi · 4 Jul 2016 at 22:47

TheVoice said:
Why not? My receiver turns on with my TV, the TV's own speakers are never used because that's the whole point of having decent audio equipment.

These were my thoughts too.

lude1962 · 4 Jul 2016 at 23:28

DEVICES --> TV --> AMP

...makes some sense?

Only if the tv is by the amp, consider a wall ,mounted tv all those cables going to it...

spoffle · 4 Jul 2016 at 23:45

Why would you want to ever use your TV speakers when you've got an amp with much better speakers?

"It's only sky" isn't a reason that makes sense. Following that logic you'd only watch movies on a decent TV too because anything else is "only sky/tv".

NeilF · 5 Jul 2016 at 08:59

Bluecube said:
Most modern TVs have ARC on at least one of their HDMI ports which feeds the sound back to the amp. Or you could use an optical out if that's available.

So, if the TV is running Plex, Amazon or Netflix, it can push DTS/DD etc out to the amp?

So surely my notion that plugging every device into the TV sort of has even more merit?

ie: Anything you're watching, just turn the amp on, no source selection necessary, and voila

ps: Again, if cost is the issue as allow DTS etc to be passed through the TV would mean licensing costs etc, understood. But from a simplicity point of view it makes sense surely.

Bluecube said:
The whole point of having an amp though is to use it. I don't see why you would want to spend so much money on one and not use it 99% of the time.

I only use my current surround system when watching a movie or a "big" TV episode. I wouldn't bother with the amp while watching breakfast news, or Celebrity Master Bake Off or what ever

NeilF · 5 Jul 2016 at 09:01

Bluecube said:
Most modern TVs have ARC on at least one of their HDMI ports which feeds the sound back to the amp. Or you could use an optical out if that's available.

So, if the TV is running Plex, Amazon or Netflix, it can push DTS/DD etc out to the amp?

So surely my notion that plugging every device into the TV sort of has even more merit? ie: You're watching Amazon on the TV, and then turn on your bluray player and start watching a film. With my suggestion, you'd not need to touch the amp at all. But with the traditional wiring approach you'd need to change the input on the amp.

ie: Anything you're watching, just turn the amp on, no source selection necessary, and voila

Bluecube said:
The whole point of having an amp though is to use it. I don't see why you would want to spend so much money on one and not use it 99% of the time.

I only use my current surround system when watching a movie or a "big" TV episode. I wouldn't bother with the amp while watching breakfast news, or Celebrity Master Bake Off or what ever

spoffle said:
Why would you want to ever use your TV speakers when you've got an amp with much better speakers?

"It's only sky" isn't a reason that makes sense. Following that logic you'd only watch movies on a decent TV too because anything else is "only sky/tv".

As just mentioned, if my kids are watching Sponge Bob or some other tosh, I'd rather they just have to press up and down volume on the TV, rather than having to turn amps on/off, and having other volumes/inputs to worry about.

ie: Turn TV on... works... I don't want.. Dad! I can't hear anything! Or 500W of "ICarly" suddenly blasting out

crinkleshoes · 5 Jul 2016 at 09:10

But you would have to change the source on the TV... so either way you are changing source on one device, not two.

james.miller · 5 Jul 2016 at 09:28

NeilFawcett said:
So, if the TV is running Plex, Amazon or Netflix, it can push DTS/DD etc out to the amp?

So surely my notion that plugging every device into the TV sort of has even more merit? ie: You're watching Amazon on the TV, and then turn on your bluray player and start watching a film. With my suggestion, you'd not need to touch the amp at all. But with the traditional wiring approach you'd need to change the input on the amp just from a source point of view, nevermind audio quality etc.

ie: Anything you're watching, just turn the amp on, no source selection necessary, and voila

Works for sources where you need video. what about audio sources? the amp is the component that sees every input unless you want to use the tv speakers only for video. Makes more sense to have everything plugged in to the amp and switch at the amp.

I only use my current surround system when watching a movie or a "big" TV episode. I wouldn't bother with the amp while watching breakfast news, or Celebrity Master Bake Off or what ever

My speakers on my tv are absolutely shocking. that just isnt an option

NeilF · 5 Jul 2016 at 09:28

crinkleshoes said:
But you would have to change the source on the TV... so either way you are changing source on one device, not two.

Don't see that. So imagine two scenarios:-

bluray --> TV --> Amp
You're watching Amazon/Netflix on the TV.
Now turn on your bluray player (TV autoswitches).
Done! Sound out of amp via same input...

bluray --> Amp --> TV
You're watching Amazon/Netflix on the TV.
Now turn on your bluray player.
Change input on amp (from TV to bluray).
Done!

Am I missing something in my noobness?

If the TV could just push/pass thru all audio to the amp (unchanged), the behaviour would seem to be simpler? What ever you're watching on the TV, it's audio is pushed to the amp.

I guess all that's being suggested is the ARC connection simply allowing any/all audio to be sent from the TV to the amp? (eg: even if it's come in from a bluray)

NeilF · 5 Jul 2016 at 09:31

james.miller said:
Works for sources where you need video. what about audio sources? the amp is the component that sees every input unless you want to use the tv speakers only for video. Makes more sense to have everything plugged in to the amp and switch at the amp.

Oh agreed!

If you have a CD player or the like, that's going to need a dedicated source/feed into the amp.

But in my noddy world where you could just pass thru all audio from the TV to the amp, then you'd just have a single source on the amp for "TV", and done. What ever is being watched on the TV is the audio out of the amp...

In my case I wouldn't have to change the amp between say Bluray, Mediaplayer, TV, Sky. I'd simply have "TV" as the source, and what ever I'm watching on the TV (Bluray, Mediaplayer, TV, Sky), its audio is passed to the amp (source "TV"). Done...

FurryLemon · 5 Jul 2016 at 09:47

NeilFawcett said:
Oh agreed!

If you have a CD player or the like, that's going to need a dedicated source/feed into the amp.

But in my noddy world where you could just pass thru all audio from the TV to the amp, then you'd just have a single source on the amp for "TV", and done. What ever is being watched on the TV is the audio out of the amp...

In my case I wouldn't have to change the amp between say Bluray, Mediaplayer, TV, Sky. I'd simply have "TV" as the source, and what ever I'm watching on the TV (Bluray, Mediaplayer, TV, Sky), its audio is passed to the amp (source "TV"). Done...

If I switched my bluray player on this second, the amp would switch to bluray as the source, it would switch to surround sound and set it's level to -15db. All with one press of a button.

If I turn on spotify via my laptop the amp will switch to spotify mode set it's volume to 0db using Pure Direct mode.

Is your amp pre-HDMI or something? Or am I confused?

NeilF · 5 Jul 2016 at 09:51

FurryLemon said:
If I switched my bluray player on this second, the amp would switch to bluray as the source, it would switch to surround sound and set it's level to -15db. All with one press of a button.

If I turn on spotify via my laptop the amp will switch to spotify mode set it's volume to 0db using Pure Direct mode.

Is your amp pre-HDMI or something? Or am I confused?

Oh! So you turn on your bluray, which makes your amp autoswitch? Does that then make your TV autoswitch too? And if you turn your bluray player off? Does the amp/TV autoswitch back to where it was?

ps: My current amp has no HDMI inputs at all (really). I'm considering what to move to, and hences trying to understand how wiring is done these days. I'm confused why ARC isn't just any/all audio from the TV to the amp, to make things simple, but this would seem to be down to copyright/licensing/cost issues!?

FurryLemon · 5 Jul 2016 at 09:56

Yes! Everything talks to everything, so no need for manual switching.

HDMI isn't the greatest thing in the world by any means, but it does make life simple.

SC0TTRS · 5 Jul 2016 at 10:04

NeilFawcett said:
As just mentioned, if my kids are watching Sponge Bob or some other tosh, I'd rather they just have to press up and down volume on the TV, rather than having to turn amps on/off, and having other volumes/inputs to worry about.

ie: Turn TV on... works... I don't want.. Dad! I can't hear anything! Or 500W of "ICarly" suddenly blasting out

Neil, what AMP are you using? cos what i've highlighted can be done with little ease....like using the TV remote to adjust the volume on the AMP, and switching everything on just by pressing the power button on the TV remote.

NeilF · 5 Jul 2016 at 10:11

FurryLemon said:
Yes! Everything talks to everything, so no need for manual switching.

HDMI isn't the greatest thing in the world by any means, but it does make life simple.

Thanks...

So if we take my example then when I have the following devices:-

Bluray
Mediaplayer
Sky
Squeezebox

So wire these up as follows:-

Bluray --> Amp --> TV
Mediaplayer --> Amp --> TV
Sky --> Optical Amp (as I'd rarely use the amp for it).
Squeezebox --> Optical Amp (music FLAC playback etc).

So if I wanted to watch a film on the bluray/media player, I assume I'd turn that device on, and the amp, and the TV would autoswitch to the amp's HDMI input?

Done...

My current setup is using an old amp where everything is sending audio to the amp via optical etc, which is a right pain at times. Infact it means I'm having to buy mediaplayers with optical out. Hence me looking to replace my amp and go with a more traditional HDMI image/audio through the amp approach.

SC0TTRS said:
Neil, what AMP are you using? cos what i've highlighted can be done with little ease....like using the TV remote to adjust the volume on the AMP, and switching everything on just by pressing the power button on the TV remote.

I've got an old Yamahe V461 which really doesn't even do HDMI pass through, so everything I have does optical (or the like) into it and HDMI into the TV.

I want to look into replacing this with something like a Onkyo NR646 to means I can wire up more "traditionally", and hopefully improve the surround/music quality too.

Understanding ARC only does TV --> Amp, and not device --> TV --> Amp helps!