Noob question - Why can't we just have one lead to TV and then one lead to Amp?

FerretBoy · 5 Jul 2016 at 10:43

I have devices->amp->TV and can choose my device input via my TV remote when amp is in standby or on. If the amp is in standby then the sound will come through the TV.
This requires all devices to have cec enabled. I don't think sky support this, I don't have sky.

Saying that I have my amp on most of the time.

SC0TTRS · 5 Jul 2016 at 10:47

NeilFawcett said:
I've got an old Yamahe V461 which really doesn't even do HDMI pass through, so everything I have does optical (or the like) into it and HDMI into the TV

Reminds me of my old Sherwood AMP.

To make you're life (and the kids) easier would recommend replacing it. You don't need to spend a forture to achieve what you want. :cool:

crinkleshoes · 5 Jul 2016 at 11:08

NeilFawcett said:
Don't see that. So imagine two scenarios:-

bluray --> TV --> Amp
You're watching Amazon/Netflix on the TV.
Now turn on your bluray player (TV autoswitches).
Done! Sound out of amp via same input...

bluray --> Amp --> TV
You're watching Amazon/Netflix on the TV.
Now turn on your bluray player.
Change input on amp (from TV to bluray).
Done!

Am I missing something in my noobness?

If the TV could just push/pass thru all audio to the amp (unchanged), the behaviour would seem to be simpler? What ever you're watching on the TV, it's audio is pushed to the amp.

I guess all that's being suggested is the ARC connection simply allowing any/all audio to be sent from the TV to the amp? (eg: even if it's come in from a bluray)

But if you are watching Amazon on the TV and turn on the blu ray player, the tv won't auto-switch as Amazon app will be live - so you'll have to switch manually.

If it's button presses you're looking to minimise - the logitech harmony remotes can be quite cheap.

Another option is to use the blu-ray player for Amazon/Netflix as most of them have it built in and then there is no input switching

FurryLemon · 5 Jul 2016 at 11:19

NeilFawcett said:
Thanks...

So if we take my example then when I have the following devices:-
Bluray
Mediaplayer
Sky
Squeezebox

So wire these up as follows:-
Bluray --> Amp --> TV
Mediaplayer --> Amp --> TV
Sky --> Optical Amp (as I'd rarely use the amp for it).
Squeezebox --> Optical Amp (music FLAC playback etc).

So if I wanted to watch a film on the bluray/media player, I assume I'd turn that device on, and the amp, and the TV would autoswitch to the amp's HDMI input?

Done...

My current setup is using an old amp where everything is sending audio to the amp via optical etc, which is a right pain at times. Infact it means I'm having to buy mediaplayers with optical out. Hence me looking to replace my amp and go with a more traditional HDMI image/audio through the amp approach.

I've got an old Yamahe V461 which really doesn't even do HDMI pass through, so everything I have does optical (or the like) into it and HDMI into the TV.

I want to look into replacing this with something like a Onkyo NR646 to means I can wire up more "traditionally", and hopefully improve the surround/music quality too.

Understanding ARC only does TV --> Amp, and not device --> TV --> Amp helps!

You can get a variety of reasonable amps for below 1k now.

Denon 2200 - 299 (some build quality issues though)
Marantz 6010 - 499
Marantz 7010 - 1k (if you're an AVF member then you can get 50ish knocked off)
Denon 6200 - Around 1k

If 4k etc isn't of interest then plenty of older models can be had cheap.

NeilF · 5 Jul 2016 at 12:03

FurryLemon said:
You can get a variety of reasonable amps for below 1k now.

Denon 2200 - 299 (some build quality issues though)
Marantz 6010 - 499
Marantz 7010 - 1k (if you're an AVF member then you can get 50ish knocked off)
Denon 6200 - Around 1k

If 4k etc isn't of interest then plenty of older models can be had cheap.

The Onkyo 646 is going for just over £300 at the moment... I'm not a super audiophile, so as long as it provides a bit of an audio improvement (ideally for music) from my old Yahama (V461), and ideally improves my connectivity... Great!

ps: I'll be aiming to go 4K next year...

NeilF · 5 Jul 2016 at 12:06

FerretBoy said:
I have devices->amp->TV and can choose my device input via my TV remote when amp is in standby or on. If the amp is in standby then the sound will come through the TV.
This requires all devices to have cec enabled. I don't think sky support this, I don't have sky.

Saying that I have my amp on most of the time.

That sounds great! As I said, I'd be happy to have Sky wired up just via optical given how rarely we use the amp with it

I'll believe my Panasonic GT30 has CEC from a quick google...

crinkleshoes · 5 Jul 2016 at 12:14

NeilFawcett said:
The Onkyo 646 is going for just over £300 at the moment... I'm not a super audiophile, so as long as it provides a bit of an audio improvement (ideally for music) from my old Yahama (V461), and ideally improves my connectivity... Great!

ps: I'll be aiming to go 4K next year...

It depends on what style of music you like and how you like the amp to colour music. Also depends on what speakers they're being paired with.

Personally... I prefer Yamaha to Onkyo for music... but Onkyo for home cinema.

Yamaha has better fidelity for the style of music I like.

Onkyo has better bass control, hence the improvements for home cinema... would also be good for rock/metal/etc.

spoffle · 5 Jul 2016 at 12:30

NeilFawcett said:
The Onkyo 646 is going for just over £300 at the moment... I'm not a super audiophile, so as long as it provides a bit of an audio improvement (ideally for music) from my old Yahama (V461), and ideally improves my connectivity... Great!

ps: I'll be aiming to go 4K next year...

People vastly over exaggerate the capability of an amp and what counts as a "decent" amp. It's really tedious and tiresome that people say things like you can get a reasonable amp for £1000...

Of course you can, it's a £1000...

NeilF · 5 Jul 2016 at 13:18

crinkleshoes said:
It depends on what style of music you like and how you like the amp to colour music. Also depends on what speakers they're being paired with.

Personally... I prefer Yamaha to Onkyo for music... but Onkyo for home cinema.

Yamaha has better fidelity for the style of music I like.

Onkyo has better bass control, hence the improvements for home cinema... would also be good for rock/metal/etc.

Well, Mordaunt short 902i fronts, 302 rears, 304 center, 308 woofer. Basically I bought this and upgraded the fronts with 902i's upfront - http://www.fransvaneeckhout.be/andere/mordaunt_short_premiere.htm

The Yamaha V461 is coming up to 10 years old now, and I've never been blown away by it musically... If an Onkyo 646 improved the music quality I'd be happy... Along with the better connectivity.

I mainly listen to electronic music I guess...

I could push to maybe a Yamaha RX V581? (about £500)

crinkleshoes · 5 Jul 2016 at 13:33

The Morduants will fit better with an Onkyo than the Yamaha. Denon/Marantz would go well also.

The Morduants will have been muffling the Yamaha

NeilF · 5 Jul 2016 at 13:35

crinkleshoes said:
The Morduants will fit better with an Onkyo than the Yamaha. Denon/Marantz would go well also.

The Morduants will have been muffling the Yamaha

Really? What's the reasoning behind that?

So given the existing speakers, you'd think the Onkyo 646 would be a better fit than say Yamaha RX V581, with the idea of ideally improving music (from the Squeezebox -> optical) a bit (as well as connectivity).

Salsa · 5 Jul 2016 at 13:37

I just connect all my devices to the TV and then use the ARC connector to pass all audio through to the amp. If the amp is on then the TV speakers are disabled and the TV remote controls the volume on the amp. If the Amp is off then the TV speakers are used as normal.

ARC handles all the audio, volume control and even power for my amp. If I turn off the TV the amp goes into standby too.

It's so simple.

/Salsa

Noxvayl · 5 Jul 2016 at 13:41

I only have a Blu ray player with surround speakers... so I have everything going to the TV and then optical for the player. Everything being the Wii, Chromecast and Sky(at the moment).

It is a much simpler solution to cut out the amp entirely. With Chromecast I am also going to completely negate the need for any Sky/Cable/Whatever input and use that for all my music and content consumption except for gaming. Blu-ray player was free as well, won it in a competition.

Got an old Sansui AMP sitting in the loft doing nothing, and its sound output wasn't better than what I am getting now even with a difference in cost being well over £1000 between the two systems.

NeilF · 5 Jul 2016 at 13:43

Salsa said:
I just connect all my devices to the TV and then use the ARC connector to pass all audio through to the amp. If the amp is on then the TV speakers are disabled and the TV remote controls the volume on the amp. If the Amp is off then the TV speakers are used as normal.

ARC handles all the audio, volume control and even power for my amp. If I turn off the TV the amp goes into standby too.

It's so simple.

/Salsa

This is exactly what was wondering about!!

And ARC will happily pass through DTS/DD etc from your devices (eg: bluray) through your TV to your amp? And if the amp is not on your TV will decode the DTS/DD to stereo?

So your amp just has one input ("TV") really?

crinkleshoes · 5 Jul 2016 at 13:59

NeilFawcett said:
Really? What's the reasoning behind that?

So given the existing speakers, you'd think the Onkyo 646 would be a better fit than say Yamaha RX V581, with the idea of ideally improving music (from the Squeezebox -> optical) a bit (as well as connectivity).

Just that some speakers go better with some amps... and some people have been able to hear a number of combos and know what works well and what doesn't

The Onkyo should be a nice upgrade.

Biffa · 5 Jul 2016 at 14:03

I do the same as Salsa and what you want to do Neil. As my TV has Plex, Amazon Prime and Netflix thats the only way for it to work for me.

NeilF · 5 Jul 2016 at 14:06

Biffa said:
I do the same as Salsa and what you want to do Neil. As my TV has Plex, Amazon Prime and Netflix thats the only way for it to work for me.

Cool!

And an external device such as a bluray player then just plays in stereo through the TV, or if the amp is on, the DTS/DD (etc) sound instead goes to the amp?

Does this capability not depend though on what TV you have, and how good its ARC support is?

FurryLemon · 5 Jul 2016 at 14:09

NeilFawcett said:
So your amp just has one input ("TV") really?

The amp has 1 output. Higher priced models can output 2 or 3 different sources at the same time, but this feature tends to be on models that retailed for 1k+ on release (like the 6010/7010 I listed earlier).

spoffle · 5 Jul 2016 at 14:36

FurryLemon said:
The amp has 1 output. Higher priced models can output 2 or 3 different sources at the same time, but this feature tends to be on models that retailed for 1k+ on release (like the 6010/7010 I listed earlier).

Plenty of amps have multiple outputs that are well below the £1000 mark on release...

FurryLemon · 5 Jul 2016 at 14:48

Edit - I'll reword that. Was in a phone conference so that was a bit jumbled.

Most cheaper AVRs do have dual HDMI out, but they can only output 1 signal. Higher end AVRs have 2 or 3 HDMI out that can output a separate signal to each source.