Where did I state specifically I don't believe in indoctrination or brainwashing? I'm just not sure why North Koreans would see him and the regime as a joke if that was the case, surely they'd be fully behind it having it drilled into them since birth?
North Korea
- Thread starter terley
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Erm the people who've fled it, tried to flee it or those still there who secretly think it but can't/won't do anything about it out of fear which is something I've already stated is the driving force.
As avenged alluded to why introduce the three generations of punishment system if everyone is already onboard with the regime, it might have been the way you think it is years ago but things have clearly changed in recent years.
As avenged alluded to why introduce the three generations of punishment system if everyone is already onboard with the regime, it might have been the way you think it is years ago but things have clearly changed in recent years.
And yet you can't back up anything you're saying with any actual sources or evidence whatsoever, so why should anyone believe you?
I think they are all permanently afraid for their lives, even his generals. The silly thing is they could out him in a second if they wanted. One day they will turn on him, it's just a matter of time with these kind of regimes.
The reason China and Russia have troops on the boarder is not to aid NK. It's to stop it spilling over on to their own country when NK citizens make for the boarder, with troops on their tail.
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Haven't read anything on those who have fled the country then have you?
You also haven't looked into reasons why the three generation punishment system was implemented.
You can't back up anything you've said about it all being brainwashing and indoctrination so let's save everyone the misery of reading these posts and end it here.
NK is a complex situation when it comes to the culture and perspective of those living there - some of the oldest ones remember or have experience of times other than the current regime and will have imparted some of that to their immediate descendants but the generations after that are much more conditioned by the world they've grown up in (many of whom are the current military age) more recent generations seem split between those who are more open to questioning the world they live in due to progression of society since their parents were their age and those (i.e. children of mid level elites who have some privilege but limited access to the outside world) are even more zealous than ever.
Not to say I fully comprehend it but unless you've actually grown up within a society like that or spent a lot of time dealing with people who've spent the formative years of their lives inside some kind of cult type situation (sadly I have relatives who have) its really hard to understand their perspective and how much that we take as normal doesn't even exist as a concept for them and how much of the finer details of life outside their experience they are oblivious of.
Not to say I fully comprehend it but unless you've actually grown up within a society like that or spent a lot of time dealing with people who've spent the formative years of their lives inside some kind of cult type situation (sadly I have relatives who have) its really hard to understand their perspective and how much that we take as normal doesn't even exist as a concept for them and how much of the finer details of life outside their experience they are oblivious of.
We even have a historical precedent in WW2 Japan. They also believed that the Emperor was a living god.
The were indoctrinated to believe Japan could not be beaten. That surrender was dishonourable. They spent 1/2 their time in school being taught absolute loyalty to the emperor.
And what happened? The West could not believe what they saw. Japanese would not surrender. Would fight to the death every time. They did not believe Japan could lose.
I guess we can ignore that particular lesson from history tho Aya?
Tell me, are you George W in disguise?
"I have it on good authority that the Norks are crying out for freedom and democracy!"
Completely different situation and nothing to go against what I've said in the thread, just making yourself look silly now.
The difference is that the general population is under nourished and have no weapons. The military has all the guns and all the food. Communications are tightly controlled which would undermine coordination among rebels. Change will only come when the elites see change is in their best interests.
The difference is that the general population is under nourished and have no weapons. The military has all the guns and all the food. Communications are tightly controlled which would undermine coordination among rebels. Change will only come when the elites see change is in their best interests.
Oh come on, the whole country will not be brainwashed, there will be people in provinces that don't get much info but a lot of people will know they don't live a normal life. Undernourished and brutal regime that imprisons you if you say anything about the government, they have to know..
Apparently people in NK don't have "the internet" at all.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...s-internet-revealed-to-have-just-28-websites/
I'm sure the regime knows exactly what would happen if the people had access the real internet. It would be counter-productive as it would undermine their own efforts to indoctrinate their citizens, with false history, etc.
I'm sure they aren't stupid enough to just give people normal internet access.
http://www.whoishostingthis.com/blog/2016/11/09/north-korea-internet/
Access to western websites punishable by death, apparently.
Also interesting that you use the words "flooding into" the country. Where do you get that from? For one the penalties from having such equipment are harsh; secondly the average NK citizen is pretty poor, so where is the profit from flooding the country with PCs that the average citizen can't afford anyhow?
The articles definitely paint the picture that only the elites in Pyongyang have enough money for computers and cell phones, and they are the ones with the most to lose if they are caught in possession of contraband equipment.
The internet and the 3g there are absolutely rigidly controlled by the state.
Believe it's a real threat. It's not going to go backwards with technology is it. Whatever they have now is only going to get better.
And they are backed into a corner and so will get more and more desperate.
Looks like it's hitting the markets now
The problem is that when these two schoolyard boys do eventually throw their toys out their prams it could kick off big style. How long is this game of tit-for-tat chess going to carry on before one of them pushes the big red button?
Soldato
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Hitchens could be right yet again...
Excerpt from the article...
"Unlike previous racist dictatorships, the North Korean one has actually succeeded in producing a sort of new species. Starving and stunted dwarves, living in the dark, kept in perpetual ignorance and fear, brainwashed into the hatred of others, regimented and coerced and inculcated with a death cult: This horror show is in our future, and is so ghastly that our own darling leaders dare not face it and can only peep through their fingers at what is coming."
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_..._words/2010/02/a_nation_of_racist_dwarfs.html
Excerpt from the article...
"Unlike previous racist dictatorships, the North Korean one has actually succeeded in producing a sort of new species. Starving and stunted dwarves, living in the dark, kept in perpetual ignorance and fear, brainwashed into the hatred of others, regimented and coerced and inculcated with a death cult: This horror show is in our future, and is so ghastly that our own darling leaders dare not face it and can only peep through their fingers at what is coming."
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_..._words/2010/02/a_nation_of_racist_dwarfs.html
Man of Honour
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It has varied with each leader. Kim Il-sung is held in very high regard. The bad policies he set in motion didn't fail until after he had passed away for the most part. From my experience, in Pyongyang at least, people refer to Kim Jong-il more like a politician. In some cases even critically although always framed with his honorifics. Kim Jong-un on the other hand is rarely discussed, and I wouldn't say revered. In English the Koreans I know give him his full titles but in Korean language they are sometimes less formal.
Man of Honour
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Yeah this has gotten really big over the last 5 years. I've seen people openly watching South Korean TV in restaurants in Pyongyang which really caught me off guard.
Yeah mostly will have an impact on the younger generations though - unfortunately many of those in the military will have grown up in one of the worst eras for it. Also unfortunately its unlikely there is enough time for the effect of stuff like that to fundamentally change their society before things come to a head.