North Korea

ltron said:
No, because they've had hundreds of conventional guns trained on Seoul for a very long time now which if used would result in the death of many thousands. We are and have been in a stalemate, the only difference is the stakes are even higher now.
Click to expand...

The deaths of thousands is preferable to the death of millions. Or even billions...
 
Jono8 said:
If you are British i don't think you can complain about the history of wars they have started...
Click to expand...

That's a silly argument, it's exactly the same argument that people use to say that tyrants in other countries are fine because Europe used to have tyrants in the past, it'd be like looking at Rwandan genocide and thinking, nah it's ok, Germany did it too, we can't argue against another countries bad behavior if we had some chequered history.

The issue is that America's behaviour in the last 50-60 years has directly caused a lot of current turbulence, you can't brush it aside because we did some of it 80+ years ago...
 
StriderX said:
That's a silly argument, it's exactly the same argument that people use to say that tyrants in other countries are fine because Europe used to have tyrants in the past, it'd be like looking at Rwandan genocide and thinking, nah it's ok, Germany did it too, we can't argue against another countries bad behavior if we had some chequered history.

The issue is that America's behaviour in the last 50-60 years has directly caused a lot of current turbulence, you can't brush it aside because we did some of it 80+ years ago...
Click to expand...

?

You argument is my argument. I was pointing out he cant just say the US should be taken out beacuse of past wars they have started , othewise by that metric we are just as bad :confused:
 
IronWarrior said:
Reports and sources on Twitter are saying US/SK are preparing "military action" against North Korea.

http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/2017/09/03/0200000000AEN20170903004751315.html

I'm going to take it as, we going to fly some more planes in the sky as a show of force and drop some bombs on a testing range and write a naughty naughty letter to Dear Leader and do nothing again.
Click to expand...

Yeah - looks like they've left it too late really - by all reports NK are well advanced in the development and roll out of kn-09 based systems now with supposedly a batch of them going into operation through July/August which considerably bolsters their long range artillery able to reach into SK. At the optimistic end of the scale if this is an underground test it could mean they are more advanced in terms of nuclear capabilities than assumed.
 
Rroff said:
Yeah - looks like they've left it too late really - by all reports NK are well advanced in the development and roll out of kn-09 based systems now with supposedly a batch of them going into operation through July/August which considerably bolsters their long range artillery able to reach into SK. At the optimistic end of the scale if this is an underground test it could mean they are more advanced in terms of nuclear capabilities than assumed.
Click to expand...

I honestly feel that not dealing with North Korea is one of the biggest mistakes we have made in the last 100 years.

It's like leaving food to go rotten, more you leave it, worst it get.

That said, it's still not too late.
 
Missile tests of increasing distance, and now a nuclear test. This needs to be sorted out. The idiot in charge is going to fire a nuke at someone otherwise.
 
MooMoo444 said:
Missile tests of increasing distance, and now a nuclear test. This needs to be sorted out. The idiot in charge is going to fire a nuke at someone otherwise.
Click to expand...

That is the biggest part of the problem no one really knows - we can't be sure if he was to be rational and pull back from the brink or really go and do it. I think at the very least they are likely to do some kind of reckless demonstration if they do develop those capabilities i.e. test firing a live warhead in the general vicinity of Guam, etc.
 
In my opinion, the only real way to deal with them now is to use an EMP type weapon to take out the south facing artillery/missile sites and runways, then physically destroy them with a coordinated guided missile/artillery and air strikes. Is it any surprise that the US are currently developing such systems?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...developing-megapulse-weapon-cripple-city.html

Air power is another question mark, their air force has been conspicuous in it's absence recently. It's likely they do not have the capability or parts to maintain the ageing craft, and as such, it's likely to be a non-problem. Especially as the AFH of NK pilots are very low! They are not exactly going to be able to compare with US pilots with significantly higher AFH. If they even manage to get any aircraft airborne at all...

It's the only way to make it work. However, then the real problems start. The only reason China prop up the dynasty is that it keeps millions of refugees behind the border. NK also acts as a nice land buffer between it and the American allies of the South. If China end up having to prop up what remains of NK, its going to make them less than happy.

Politically what happens then is well out of my limited and uninformed ability to even begin to predict, but I think the appropriate word would be "instability".

It should be noted that Any such military plan will cause civilian casualties in the south inevitably, and possibly more further afield. The odd artillery shell will get through to SK, maybe more, provided the artillery are well trained enough to operate the guns manually.. Which they likely will be, for obvious reasons. Also, we don't know what (if any) reliable SLBM systems they have, which really throws a spanner in the works. Once they have that capability for submarine launched ICBM with a true nuclear warhead, they become even harder to deal with.

Again, in my opinion, now is really the last window of opportunity to "deal with the NK problem" militarily before they become almost impossible to deal with safely. Even now, it might be too late.
 
A lot of their artillery is pretty antiquated and doesn't really rely on electronics - especially not if you are just volleying at a city indiscriminately - though that might take out some of their more advanced weapons that have further range. (The ~3% of their artillery that has the range to hit Seoul for definite without having to be moved up is like WW2 era stuff that can be utilised almost if not entirely mechanically).

Typical tactic with massed artillery, which I assume NK will use, is to dig them in on a reverse facing slope and move them in and out in waves to fire and the hide to minimise attrition to counter battery fire which will also reduce effectiveness of targetted airstrikes as can be seen in Syria where it took multiple hits to effective destroy semi-dug in stuff with cruise missiles.

EMPs traditionally haven't proved that reliable - in some tests electronics close to the target were 70+% unaffected while street lights a long way away were taken out, etc.

The problem aircraft wise is unlikely to be from NK on the offensive where they'd completely lack any kind of air supremacy and too old to deal with modern anti-air defences but in action around Pyongyang where the massed air-defences will give them for awhile at least (especially if they use civilians as human shields at their radar sites, etc.) some air supremacy - however that is a bit of a double edged sword as much of their anti-air stuff is old and depends more on sheer volume of fire than precision meaning they'd likely be hitting their own stuff as well - plus units out with MANPADS, etc. will likely have communication issues and unable to easily differentiate friendly and hostile aircraft.

AFAIK NK's submarine fleet is largely ancient diesel stuff that will be very easy to detect and basically like shooting fish in a barrel in open water - same of the rest of their naval capabilities which I suspect would largely be missiled into oblivion in port in the opening stages of any war and basically a sitting duck in open water.

Malt_Vinegar said:
It's the only way to make it work. However, then the real problems start. The only reason China prop up the dynasty is that it keeps millions of refugees behind the border. NK also acts as a nice land buffer between it and the American allies of the South. If China end up having to prop up what remains of NK, its going to make them less than happy.
Click to expand...

Its the only other way to resolve it really without a full on war - somehow engineer the situation so that China is forced to deal with it. They are in a much better position than the US and even SK for instance to run infiltration type missions and develop links with those on the ground (which is difficult even for them with the nature of NK).
 
Last edited:
Anyone else getting a bit tired of the finger wagging and tutting beloved by those world leaders voicing their condemnation of North Korea's actions, do they think that Kim Jong Un gives a toss what the likes of Boris Johnson has to say?
 
the threats north korea have been getting from america, it would be silly of them not to develop the most destructive weapons they could. look at past countries who didnt have weapons
 
PiKe said:
Couldn't you theoretically donate a huge EMP and render all their weaponry useless?
Click to expand...

As said above, the problem is the ability to operate the likes of artillery without any computer assistance is likely to be highly problematic for loss of life down south.

That's if you have an EMP weapon with such capability available. Which is also questionable.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom