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NVIDIA Next Generation ‘Ampere’ 7nm Graphics Cards Landing 1H 2020

Discussion in 'Graphics Cards' started by LoadsaMoney, Oct 4, 2019.

  1. Calin Banc

    Hitman

    Joined: Aug 14, 2009

    Posts: 904

    https://www.techpowerup.com/review/xfx-radeon-rx-5700-xt-thicc-iii-ultra/8.html

    The standard 5700xt is right about equal to 2080 in BF5 in 4k while is beating the 2080 in lower resolutions. Is not that hard to believe that in making a game around an exact piece of hardware it will allow the developer to make the most of that GPU as it knows exactly how to push the settings and make the right adjustments for the best performance. Also the power is not that high and if you consider that it will be an improved micro architecture, then I'd say anything is possible.
     
  2. aoaaron

    Wise Guy

    Joined: May 19, 2012

    Posts: 2,350


    I’d venture against it having the raw power but with the right optimisation will indeed get some great results.
    Still not convinced it will be pumping out native 4k all the time though
     
  3. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 30,653


    If these are engineering sampels then their clock speed is irrelevent.

    There might be some tweak in clock pseed of 100-200MHz to try and fine a sweet spot in power, voltage, frequency and yields but that is about it.

    Clock speeds also likely wont be pushed high because tend to require more power. a 48CU GPU at 1700MHz might be about the max.


    Console have a much tighter power limit than PCs and there really isn;t anything that would make a console use less power than a PC for the same performance and components.
     
  4. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 30,653


    From recent releases, Nvidia simply don;t leak any information. You wont hear much until about a month before released. The GDC announcement rumours makes a lot of sense
     
  5. TNA

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 13, 2008

    Posts: 13,415

    Location: London

    Yeah I get that, but what some people do not seem to get is these engineering samples will be of a newer architecture, not to mention will be developed on a better process, N7+ I think it is called.

    Newer architecture + newer fabrication process means 2080 performance is easily achievable.
     
  6. Cooper

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 16, 2004

    Posts: 2,607

    I'd be disapointed if it was anything less than 2080 level performance.

    Besides, 2080 level performance in a console is very different to 2080 performance in a PC. When you throw console sized development teams at a problem, many times the size of PC develpment teams, with vastly bigger budgets, optimising code 'to the metal', magical things happen out of all proportion to the power of the components they're working with.
     
  7. Grim5

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 6, 2019

    Posts: 2,571

    unfortunately this mythical console optimization doesn't hold up in the eta of x86 consoles - maybe it was a real thing with custom designs but now they are just PCs and run like a PC. Digital foundry and other have tested it multiple times and can re produce console performance with the exact equivalent hardware on a PC. It's not like a Xbox One X is somehow performing better than a RX580 cause it's not. However what we have seen at least from Sony is their exclusive games are sometimes able to lead innovation- like Uncharted 4 which to this day has the best facial animations ever - but it has little to do with performance and more to do with the developer spending countless hours in the mocap studio. Sony developers have big budgets it's not nothing to do with the console.
     
  8. BigBANGtheory

    Hitman

    Joined: Apr 21, 2007

    Posts: 855

    Which is a result of them playing the market pricing and demand to maximum levels, its all about protecting price and profit now from its leading position.
     
  9. bru

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 21, 2002

    Posts: 7,201

    Location: kent

    So if you believe the hype, in one fell swoop AMD's new console APU will make their entire line of discrete GPU's obsolete, as it will be faster than anything else they have right now.

    Ill believe it when I see it.:)
     
  10. AMDPower

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 24, 2004

    Posts: 2,584

    so what are your predictions for ampere release date?

    from AMD Navi thread get the impression its going to be june/july or soon there after.

    assuming nvidia don't want to give AMD a chance to say we toppled their 2080Ti and I am also very sure we won't see 2080Ti super now.

    both companies will want to respond to each other. I think this year we might see good competition from AMD and hopeful less crazy prices.

    Someone offered me a rtx titan at good price but I might wait now and not bother waste the money.
     
  11. KillBoY_UK

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 20, 2004

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    Location: Oxford

    Very wishful thinking.

    So you think after years of being behind in releases AMD are going to release 2 new architecture generations with in 18 months. Jump from the power efficiency of 16nm Pascal with there current 7nm Navi to RNDA 2 on 7nm (+ or not) or something with better efficiency than even say 12nm Turing ?

    The only time in the past decade I can remember where we have had massive efficiency gains on the same process with no other special technologies was Kepler to Maxwell.
     
  12. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 30,653



    ehh, no company ever leaks information on anupcoming product unless they have terrible sales
     
  13. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 30,653


    Exactly. game devs can try and optimize around a single platform which can help a little but then it is not like the console GPUs don't exist in PCs. There are a few edge cases such as memory but console tend to have more limitations than benefits.

    The other thing is game engine technology is so advanced now very few development teams have the knowledge or resources to do micro level optimizations around specific hardware
     
  14. hyperseven

    Soldato

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    arent they those fake renders of the rear ports that AMD used in their keynote?
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
  15. JediFragger

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

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    Location: y0 Momma's a$$

    Probably, I'm just pointing towards the video.
     
  16. melmac

    Soldato

    Joined: Dec 19, 2010

    Posts: 7,203

    Yes, that's what they are doing. The new Xbox is going to have Variable Rate shading and Ray Tracing, those are not features of RDNA but are features that AMD say are coming to RDNA2. We know this, it was part of the Xbox X announcement from Microsoft.

    The new consoles are coming on a new process(7nm Euv+) because RDNA2 is optimised for that process.

    And lastly you forget that this is a custom SoC designed for consoles, It's going to be more power efficient than a discrete card for a PC would be for the same performance.
     
  17. melmac

    Soldato

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    Posts: 7,203

    That's a strange statement Bru, Consoles aren't out for another 11 months. There are going to be new GPUs out by then. But, even if they were out tomorrow, your statement would still be odd.The Xbox one X was released and was a little more powerful than the Rx 580. Yet didn't make the 1060, 1050ti, Rx 580, etc obsolete. Both Nvidia and AMD are still releasing GPUs that are less powerful than the one in the Xbox One X.
     
  18. drunkenmaster

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 33,108

    Knows anything about hardware, costs and heat output? The current consoles use 200W+, a 2080gtx is a 12nm card that uses what ~215W... how much would that card use if it was moved to 7nm, 140-150W, with 50W left for a slightly underclocked Zen 2 8 core. It's a 545mm^2 die, on 7nm it would be 280mm^2 maybe. How does all this preclude a 7nm, maybe even 7nm + card with similar power/performance levels being used in a console? When you go from 545mm^2 down to half the die size you reduce die cost by significantly more than 2x due to yields and when you cut out a significant portion of the wafer profit as you sell to the console maker for less than you'd sell to an OEM, and when you cut out all the profits for the OEM, yeah, cost wouldn't be an issue either.
     
  19. bru

    Soldato

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    Location: kent

    You are quite right and my comment was a little in jest, but realistically their will always be a need for discrete GPU's even of the lower end variety.

    Personally I'd love the new Xbox to be as powerful as the rumours suggest, Ill probably buy one anyway.

    RDNA has been a brilliant new architecture for AMD, it has allowed the 5700xt to get pretty close to the 2070 super, but it has taken it out of it's sweet spot efficiency wise, but it's performance is there. Now moving on to the next size GPU up and keeping the power consumption down, well if AMD can do it then hats off to them, but putting all that power into an APU along with an 8 core Ryzen CPU. hell maybe they can, as the new laptop parts have shown you can have a high performance 8 core APU in a 15w or 45w package, so maybe it is possible.

    If they can do it, then good for them. It could certainly shake things up a bit, especially if the rumour of a windows mode is true.
     
  20. Grim5

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 6, 2019

    Posts: 2,571

    ^^ Indeed. AMD has just launched 15w 16 thread zen 3 APUs. The same could power a console, even 45w potentially. And we know from benchmarks, the 45w part is faster than a i7 9700k in multi thread loads - so assuming games make use of those 16 threads - a 45w APU can be faster than a desktop 9700k at gaming, that's insanse!

    Still leaving 200 to 250w for the GPU - plenty for a high end gpu. You take that 5700xt, produce it on 7nm+ using RDNA2 architecture, use the efficiency gains to add a few extra CU's and voila you have over RTX2080 performance.

    Where it gets really interesting. Let's say we make it on 7nm+ with RDNA2, but don't add any extra CU's - so we have the 5700xt with whatever architecture IPC gains only. Gaining nice efficiency in the process - so now we have a 170w GPU. This architecture uses Adaptive Shading - if every game supports it, that instantly boosts the performance by 15% - now once again we can make these performance claims against PC's.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020