• Competitor rules

    Please remember that any mention of competitors, hinting at competitors or offering to provide details of competitors will result in an account suspension. The full rules can be found under the 'Terms and Rules' link in the bottom right corner of your screen. Just don't mention competitors in any way, shape or form and you'll be OK.

Nvidia’s ace in the hole against AMD: Maxwell is the first GPU with full DirectX 12 support

Caporegime
Joined
24 Sep 2008
Posts
38,283
Location
Essex innit!
Quite an old thread but does clear up some misconceptions about DX12 compatibility. I read a lot of posts stating this and that about DX12 but appears that only Maxwell is fully DX12 compliant.

In addition to Nvidia’s new Maxwell GPU having top-of-the-line performance and power efficiency, it has another feature that will probably make a lot more difference in the real world: It’s the first GPU to offer full support for Microsoft’s upcoming DirectX 12 and Direct3D 12 graphics APIs. According to Microsoft, it has worked with Nvidia engineers in a “zero-latency environment” for several months to get DX12 support baked into Maxwell and graphics drivers. Even more importantly, Microsoft then worked with Epic to get DirectX 12 support baked into Unreal Engine 4, and to build a tech demo of Fable Legends that uses DX12.

All of this comes at a time when the future of AMD’s next-gen GPU and accompanying low-level API efforts are somewhat uncertain. UE4 support for DX12 is a huge deal; hundreds of games for the PC, Xbox One, and PS4 will be developed with UE4 over the next few years. Will this force AMD to fully support DX12 with its next-gen GPU, or will it stick to the Mantle party line? And conversely, if Mantle wins out over DX12, where does that leave Nvidia, Microsoft, Epic, and anyone else who jumped on the DX12 train?

The video below is what happened to Fable Legends when Lionhead applied some DX12 tweaks and ran it on some Maxwell hardware.




And here are the Elemental and Infiltrator demos, running in Unreal Engine 4. (These are old versions that were rendered on pre-Maxwell hardware — the newer versions, which were shown at a special event last week, aren’t yet public.)



Direct3D 11.3 and Direct3D 12

Back in March, when Microsoft officially unveiled DirectX 12 (and D3D 12), it surprised a lot of people by proclaiming that most modern Nvidia (Fermi, Kepler, and Maxwell) and AMD GPUs (all GCN-based cards) would be supported. Now, we’re sure this is still the case — your GCN-based AMD graphics card will still play DirectX 12 games — but Maxwell sounds like it’ll be the first GPU to have all of the necessary hardware blocks to fully support all of DX12’s new features. Microsoft doesn’t explicitly say that this is the case, but it’s strongly implied by today’s announcement of Direct3D 11.3.

Due to its status as the first GPU with full D3D 12 support, Microsoft took Maxwell’s release as a chance to go into more technical details about D3D12 — and to surprise everyone with the announcement of D3D11.3. We’ll look into D3D12 in more detail in a future — if you’re technically minded and want a sneak peak, check out this PowerPoint slide deck — but basically it sounds like it will be broken into feature levels, just like D3D11. If a GPU isn’t capable of full DX12 support, developers will be able to fall back to D3D11.3 — which offers many of the same features as D3D12, but at a higher level of abstraction. (Because D3D12 is much closer to the actual metal, the GPU must have the necessary hardware blocks — otherwise, those hardware blocks must be abstracted/emulated in software. That’s where D3D11.3 comes in.)



In short, I suspect that Fermi, Kepler, and GCN are all ostensibly capable of D3D12 — but in most cases they will lack true hardware support for the new rendering features and fall back to D3D11.3. The PS4 and Xbox One, with their GCN-based GPUs, will almost certainly be the same.

All this is to say that Maxwell could have a significant advantage over other GPUs in DX12 games. It could even make Maxwell more power efficient (DX12 could reduce power consumption by 50%). AMD presumably has the option of implementing DX12 fully in its next-gen GPU (GCN 2.0?) — but a) it isn’t clear if AMD will side with Mantle or DX12, and b) GCN 2.0 might not arrive before DX12’s official release, which is scheduled for winter 2015. Of course, it also depends on which API developers choose as well — but UE4 picking up official DX12 support is definitely a big deal.

If you’re a developer, you can now sign up for DirectX 12 early access — and when you’re accepted, you’ll also have access to the DX12 version of Unreal Engine 4.

http://www.extremetech.com/computin...is-the-first-gpu-with-full-directx-12-support

Well worth a read if you are unsure of your GPU being DX12 capable or not :)
 
Last edited:
If DX12 is the savior of Graphics cards that fully support it.....

Why are there no benchmarks available for download for win 10 yet.

It seems the world and his dog has a copy of win 10 so it would seem dooable to knock one up and release it to the expectant world. Or are the drivers just not ready yet?

DX12 isn't ready yet. W10 is still running DX11 but June is supposed to be the launch of DX12 and December starts to see the first DX12 games launched. Expect a trickle of games to start but with the Xbox being DX12 also, expect games to come quicker than what happened with DX11/10
 
It took 2 engineers 6 weeks to port King of Wushu from DX11 to DX12


There is a number of games that would be cool to see ported to DX12 but with time restraints on devs and financial costs, I would be surprised to see many ports :(
 
Clears up hee haw nothing at all, out with loose statements of DX12 compliant, afaik both AMD and Nvidia haven't released confirmed finalised specs of who supports what yet.

I know you have a chip on your shoulder but I have shown that Maxwell is fully DX12 compliant and you have shown nothing, so give it a rest. Unless you show something of value other than your AFAIK, I will be ignoring you :)
 
So my 780TI will or wont support it? There are very mixed messages in here, I wasn't confused before I came into the thread, but I am now! :p

I thought it didn't support it?

780Ti is Kepler so feature level is 11_0, so no it doesn't support it.

The 780Ti supports most of the features of DX12 but not all (a bit like GCN)
 
With Windows 10 launching in about 3 months, you would hope to see a few DX12 titles by the end of the year.

Agreed. It would be nice to have one game on launch but I can't see that happening. King of Wushu looks a fun slasher, so that could be first out the door (Fable Legends as well?). Plus there is plenty of devs who have jumped on the DX12 train, so hopefully a steady stream of DX12 games from December.

One thing is certain though, we are relying on devs to give us the best for our hardware and I am not sure that is a good thing.
 
One of the reason's i stopped buying hardware so often was down to seeing i did not really need it as developers stopped pushing the envelope years ago. If they start doing it again i will be more interested in PC hardware as it is the pinnacle.

Gameplay is paramount to me but gameplay and gorgeous graphics are my version of fap heaven. When I look at the PS4's version of TW3 and then compare it to my systems version, I can't help but feel a little deflated (albeit, the game is superb). And when you look at the PC games sales figures to the consoles, it is obvious we play second fiddle and from a publisher's point of view, I can understand why. If the PC was more dominant, we would get better support I guess.
 
Fact is Microsoft have stated that dx12 on the Xbone will enable cross platform play on titles that support it between the xbone and PC. This has nothing to do with AMD or Mantle this is explicitly DX12, other than some internet rumours and speculation and a dubious pic that it was a copy pasta of Mantle it is not Mantle.

Although hats off to AMD for pretty much forcing microsofts hand into making DX12 by showing what is capable from an Api like Mantle, AMD were never going to do much with mantle as they simple are or were not interested in putting any serious investment into it, much like most of their technology.

And for the non believers of cross platform via dx12

http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2015/01/21/windows-10-nvidia-dx12/ Direct from Nvidia

No argument from me Si and good post.

One thing that does remain certain and that is gains. While Mantle did give some nice gains for low end CPU/high end GPU users, DX12 won't really bring massive gains to high end CPU and GPU users. latency times will improve of course and multi high end GPU users should see some nice benefits but for the majority, there won't be much in frame gains.
 
From my experience, mantle is a massive benefit in all the mantle games I've tried especially for bf 4 but then my cpu is 5+ years old now.... Hardline there wasn't much difference except for the min FPS, but overall, mantle games feel a lot smoother than any dx game I have played, at least on my pc, it is a shame you can't monitor the frame latency with afterburner/rivatuner as this is far more important than the fps imo, generally anything over 20ms doesn't feel smooth.

Yer, for your CPU, Mantle was a right result and for me, I would say anything over 40ms I can see but under 40ms just looked and felt the same but I am old :D

That wasn't what I asked.

You are asking me things I don't know, so I used my own experience to try and answer but I guess you are again baiting me, so I shan't bother with you. Had enough of your trolling in my threads.
 
Back
Top Bottom