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Objections to Keir Starmer as PM?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by g67575, 6 Apr 2021.

  1. g67575

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 30 Jun 2019

    Posts: 2,217

    Could you see Keir Starmer as the Prime Minister?

    Personally, I could, many of his beliefs and principles seem to align with the broadly social democratic views held by the majority of Labour Party MPs (as do my own, generally), rather than the dedicated socialist groups. So, I'm biased of course...

    He is a self proclaimed 'socialist', but I suspect this comes from a desire not to be labelled a bland moderate, someone with no real consistent beliefs at all, or worse a filthy Blairite :p.

    So, I'll stop writing things you may already know, now. Here's my main criticism of Keir's leadership so far - We still don't really know what he would do differently, both in terms of style and substance (policy).

    What do you worry Keir Starmer's weaknesses may be as PM? Or, what might put you off voting for Labour at the next election, with him as leader (aside from the Party itself)?
     
    Last edited: 6 Apr 2021
  2. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 49,806

    Location: Plymouth

    His biggest weakness is his party and it's membership.

    Given how vocal the idea of using someone like starmer as a stalking horse to get someone like Corbyn into downing Street, and the clear detachment of much of the membership from the wider electorate, there are a great many moderate centrists who won't take the risk until the party and it's membership has the more extreme elements pushed out, but that process will also damage the electoral chances in the short term (see Neil Kinnock's time as leader for an example of the same).
     
  3. Bug One

    Capodecina

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 11,043

    Location: Sandwich, Kent

    As a Tory voter - I think he's probably fine. I think most of us just want a centrist. What will make or break him will be the extremists in the party and those hell bent on pushing ideology. The last thing this country needs is 'revolution'.
     
    Last edited: 6 Apr 2021
  4. Terminal_Boy

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 13 Apr 2013

    Posts: 9,595

    Location: La France

    Torn between Momentum and the TUC, he wouldn’t stand a chance.
     
  5. g67575

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 30 Jun 2019

    Posts: 2,217

    Yes, I hear Keir is no union man.
     
  6. mid_gen

    Capodecina

    Joined: 20 Dec 2004

    Posts: 11,790

    Yeah, we wouldn't want a UK political party getting hijacked by a minority faction with a fanatical idealogical position that ends up causing the greatest upheaval in our country in the last 50 years, the economic damage of which hit us right in the middle of a global pandemic when we can least afford it.

    That would be awful....:rolleyes::p
     
  7. g67575

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 30 Jun 2019

    Posts: 2,217

    I'd like Labour's policy to be rejoining the single market, as this seems like a good compromise between in/out of the EU, with similar trade options to what we had in 2020 (rather than the obviously worse trading position we find ourselves in).

    When we had votes in parliament on the various EU exit options, many MPs abstained. Apparently, they were either unwilling to vote on a controversial issue, or unable to decide.

    So, I think this could take a years to even begin a discussion on in parliament, again.
     
    Last edited: 6 Apr 2021
  8. Bug One

    Capodecina

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 11,043

    Location: Sandwich, Kent

    But, Labour weren't for remain? Their previous Labour leader was a supporter of Leave until his members told him not to be. Labour position was just to dither and delay.

    Do you think that Labour would rejoin a single market without even putting it to a referrendum? Because I seriously doubt (and hope) Keir is that fanatical.
     
  9. Bug One

    Capodecina

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 11,043

    Location: Sandwich, Kent

    Imagine that - a party following the democratic will of the people. Or are you still convinced that all the people who voted in that referrendum are dead now.
     
  10. g67575

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 30 Jun 2019

    Posts: 2,217

    I think it would be fine, as long as Labour were clear before the election, about their intention to rejoin the single market, or seek a similar / better arrangement.

    The election itself would then be a kind of referendum, but without all the division (and feeling of obligation) that the Brexit referendum lead to.
     
    Last edited: 6 Apr 2021
  11. mid_gen

    Capodecina

    Joined: 20 Dec 2004

    Posts: 11,790

    Oh gosh. You're one of those people? Ok bye.
     
  12. Bug One

    Capodecina

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 11,043

    Location: Sandwich, Kent

    You're right, it's not worth any argument. It's all done with now. Bye.
     
  13. Mr C

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 8 Sep 2006

    Posts: 1,220

    Funnily enough, a lot of people in the age bracket that voted in majority for brexit HAVE died. In fact so many so that even before the coronavirus hit, that if the same polling was done today, remain would win (by the fact that the youth ineligible to vote are now eligible and would be mostly remain and the elderly who are now dead were mostly for leave).

    Once you add in coronavirus knocking out a decent number of the 60+ range in the last year too, it probably is even more in Remain's favour now. But that's not really an argument anyone wants to have, it's all over and done with now and any party attempting to fight on this debate is beating a dead horse.

    In reference to this thread, I think I'll just echo Dolph:

    I want Starmer to be PM, but the Labour party have a lot of work to do to make themselves electable. Personally i would say the same about the Conservative party too, but based on polling, it seems the wider populace don't share the same view.
     
  14. g67575

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 30 Jun 2019

    Posts: 2,217

    The electorate (at least those who participated in polling) seem to be pleased with how the Covid-19 vaccination programme is going. Fair enough, I'm pleased too, but I don't particularly credit the government for this, after all that's happened. I think it's just a sense of relief that life may return to 'normal' this year...
     
  15. PlacidCasual

    Soldato

    Joined: 13 May 2003

    Posts: 7,301

    Keir's a bland technocrat he missed his calling, really belonged in the EU. I can't see him really shaking the boat. He's vanilla, but Carte D'Or.. you know fancier packaging allusions to quality but basically the same bog standard ingredients as the rest.
     
  16. Bug One

    Capodecina

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 11,043

    Location: Sandwich, Kent

    I'd have to disagree with you on those assumptions. Not everyone voting for brexit was in their 80s and not every young voter is a remainer. But thats all irrelevent now.

    I think the conservatives were unelecatble until Boris became leader - and a great number of the Tory back benchers opposed it. But that change was very much needed for the electorate. I certainly wouldn't have voted for May or any party that kept Grayling in a front bench.

    I think making Kier leader was the best option - but there needs to be a bigger change to the part to make the party appeal to the majority. And announcing that they'll be re-entering a single market without a referrendum would guarantee political suicide.

    A lot of Labour voters also voted to leave.
     
  17. Uther

    Capodecina

    Joined: 16 Jun 2005

    Posts: 16,415

    I have no objections to Starmer becoming PM, somebody a bit 'boring' is probably what the country needs after the last few years of upheavel. On the other hand, I don't think it will be in 2023/24, as I firmly believe that the Cons will waltz back in to power in that timeframe due almost entirely to the vaccine roll out, and, I think an economic bounce once Covid recedes into memory. Will he still be Labour leader in 2028...
     
  18. g67575

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 30 Jun 2019

    Posts: 2,217

    Yeah, maybe just stick it in the 'problems too difficult for now' box, I guess.
     
  19. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 49,806

    Location: Plymouth

    A lot of normally tory voters (whether for actual support or as least worst option) voted remain as well.

    In the referendum, the Tory leadership was much more pro remain than the labour leadership was.

    What labour managed to do with their policy was thoroughly alienate both sides of the brexit argument, which was truly impressive.
     
  20. g67575

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 30 Jun 2019

    Posts: 2,217

    Indeed, it was a very 'special' moment. The hive mind kept fighting itself, unfortunately.