OcUK Crash Investigation Team in review - A547 Abergale

siztenboots · 4 Aug 2006 at 16:04

Some of you might recall a thread we had about the driver and the four cyclists killed, last January on the A547 Abergale.

" Robert Harris, 47, from Abergele, lost control on the road near his home on 8 January, where 12 members of Rhyl Cycling Club were on a training ride.

He admitted three counts of driving with defective tyres and was fined £60 for each of the counts and endorsed his driving licence with six points at Llandudno Magistrates' Court. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/5241798.stm

I was shocked at the leniency of the verdict considering the loss of life.

merlin · 4 Aug 2006 at 16:07

siztenboots said:
I was shocked at the leniency of the verdict considering the loss of life.

I'm not. It was going to happen whether he had bald tyres or had new ones fitted that day.

Just a nasty accident.

The verdict was a fine for bald tyres, not killing people.

El Gringo · 4 Aug 2006 at 16:08

It's sickening.. but... black ice in itself is almost guaranteed trouble. I'm on the fence

Morba · 4 Aug 2006 at 16:11

why shocked?

it was shown that the tyres (although below legal limit) were not the cause of the accident, so they must have felt that the same tyres but in a legal state would have also resulted in the same accident.

Siliconslave · 4 Aug 2006 at 16:14

yup - i love the way you can spin stories so easily by ignoring little itsey bits of information (coughdailymailcough)

Magistrates said the defective tyres "were not a contributory factor".

...

He said: "We are dealing with this case as we would any case involving defective tyres, where a guilty plea has been entered by post.

if your on black ice you really can't do much bar cross your fingers and hope

Glaucus · 4 Aug 2006 at 16:18

it was the correct fine. The police said the accident was caused by black ice and not the tyres or his driving style. Therefore accidental death and he got charged with the tyre offences.

There is such things called accidents. If it was caused by the defective tyres then it would be different. But its wasn't.

Morba · 4 Aug 2006 at 16:20

Siliconslave said:
yup - i love the way you can spin stories so easily by ignoring little itsey bits of information (coughdailymailcough)

if your on black ice you really can't do much bar cross your fingers and hope

wow, a daily mail hater!
i read this in the daily mail this morning (as i read it daily) and felt that it wasnt sensationalised at all. i never came away from the paper feeling that the driver should be shot on sight either.

Cuchulain · 4 Aug 2006 at 16:20

Added to which, he has to live with the deaths of four people on his concience for the rest of his life

Simon · 4 Aug 2006 at 16:22

This doesn't make sense to me. Even if it wasn't his fault, he still had 3 defective tyres. Each one should be 3 points, so why has he only got 6 points endorsed on his license and not 9? :confused:

Morba · 4 Aug 2006 at 16:23

possibly 1 wasnt 'that' bad but under the limit, or they felt that 6 points was relevent at this time.

merlin · 4 Aug 2006 at 16:23

Cuchulain said:
Added to which, he has to live with the deaths of four people on his concience for the rest of his life

Why would the deaths of those people be on his concience?

Cuchulain · 4 Aug 2006 at 16:26

merlin said:
Why would the deaths of those people be on his concience?

If your car plowed into and kill 4 cyclists, accident or not, what would you do? Have a party?

Simon · 4 Aug 2006 at 16:27

Morba said:
possibly 1 wasnt 'that' bad but under the limit, or they felt that 6 points was relevent at this time.

Should be quite simple though. A defective tyres = 3points. There shouldn't be a grey area

merlin · 4 Aug 2006 at 16:30

Cuchulain said:
If your car plowed into and kill 4 cyclists, accident or not, what would you do? Have a party?

Answering a question with a question = lame.

But anyway - no, I wouldn't have a party. No.

So again, if it wasn't his fault - which it wasn't - why would it be on his conscience?

Glaucus · 4 Aug 2006 at 16:33

merlin said:
Answering a question with a question = lame.

But anyway - no, I wouldn't have a party. No.

So again, if it wasn't his fault - which it wasn't - why would it be on his conscience?

because he killed people. I know train drivers that have hit suicide jumpers. It's still on there conscience and one even committed ssuicide cos he had so many jumpers (7 IIRC), he jumper of the severn bridge, so no one would find his body.

Cuchulain · 4 Aug 2006 at 16:35

merlin said:
Answering a question with a question = lame.

But anyway - no, I wouldn't have a party. No.

So again, if it wasn't his fault - which it wasn't - why would it be on his conscience?

Because it's human nature, if it was me I'd have considered myself partially responsible regardless of whether it was an accident or not.

Siliconslave · 4 Aug 2006 at 16:37

Morba said:
wow, a daily mail hater!

pretty much yer

to be fair pretty much all the papers are the same, but with their own prejudices and slants on things, but the mail has a tendancy in my experiance to over-react the most

merlin · 4 Aug 2006 at 16:38

Fair points, I suppose I would feel guilty at first. But I think that would subside after a while and certainly I dont think I'd have their lives on my conscience after hearing the verdict of accidental death.

Alibaba99 · 4 Aug 2006 at 16:50

The maximum fine for a defective tyre is also £2500 so £60 for each is also rather low.

TripleT · 4 Aug 2006 at 17:25

You've gotta question the organisers of this bike ride, a nice icy morning - yer a great time for a bike ride!

Not shocked at all by the result