OCUK Forum Racial Makeup Thread

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dirtydog said:
Okay, other people say they are proud of being white and you assume they mean merely skin colour. Perhaps it is you who is reading their minds?
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No, I made a judgment call that turned out to be inaccurate. In any case, you can substitute the word 'race' for 'skin colour' and it's still a good representation of my beliefs:

- I don't believe that it's possible to be proud of the colour of your skin.

- I don't believe that it's possible to be proud of your race.

Or, for the more pedantic reader who will argue that they are proud of the colour of their skin, you can append 'without committing an act of stupidity' to both of those sentences.
 
Arcade Fire said:
No, I made a judgment call that turned out to be inaccurate. In any case, you can substitute the word 'race' for 'skin colour' and it's still a good representation of my beliefs:

- I don't believe that it's possible to be proud of the colour of your skin.

- I don't believe that it's possible to be proud of your race.

Or, for the more pedantic reader who will argue that they are proud of the colour of their skin, you can append 'without committing an act of stupidity' to both of those sentences.
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i can be proud of what ever the **** i like, i pay my taxes! :D
 
dirtydog said:
No, not one day. I've always felt the same and I personally believe that most people of all races, all round the world, are likewise.
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Oddly enough, I actually agree with you. However, the difference is that you think it's a natural reaction and shouldn't be tampered with, whereas I feel that it's something imprinted upon us by our upbringing, and if it were removed then the world would be a better place.
 
Arcade Fire said:
I don't think that I've every said "skin colour == race".
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I've misinterpreted you. I believe the attitude exists in some, although it seems not you.

I just find it strange that people can be proud of the colour of their skin. Maybe I'm misinterpreting them - perhaps what they're saying is that they're proud to be white westerners, or white Europeans, or white British. Even then, though, I don't see what there is to be proud of.

It's entirely an accident of birth that I'm a white middle-class British male, above average height with ginger hair and brown eyes. I'm not proud of any of those things, because I recognize that they were entirely random.
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The way I see it is that they are 'proud' of the political identity of being white that is emerging - just as black power rose in the 60s. I see this kind of 'pride' as the willingness to openly support a political idea.

Pride is a strange and abstract idea and whilst I agree that I have no pride in certain aspects of myself, I do recognise the advantages they offer.


There are two different approaches to the 'race is only skin colour' viewpoint, though. The first way is to say that it's patently false, because race encompasses other things, like attitudes towards friendship, family, employment etc. But the second approach says that these are cultural differences, and stem from differences in geography rather than differences in race (or skin colour).

There are undeniable physical differences between races (for example, on average blacks are better runners and worse swimmers than whites) but those are swamped by the inter-race variation in physiques.
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dirtydog said:
I wonder why it is that all white countries are successful and functioning properly, and all black countries are ridden by crime, war or a collapsing economy? Even countries which thrived under white rule (Rhodesia) are now failing under black rule.
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There's nothing quite like a sweeping generalisation to start a discussion is there? Especially from someone who so often demands from those arguing against him to define their terms and be more specific. ;)

I'm 1 by the way. I'm proud to be British, I'm proud to live in Cornwall but I don't think the colour of my skin dictates either of the above.

Panzer
 
Panzerbjorn said:
There's nothing quite like a sweeping generalisation to start a discussion is there? Especially from someone who so often demands from those arguing against him to define their terms and be more specific. ;)
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Was I generalising? I think what I said holds true in every case doesn't it? Every white country is successful, every black country is a failure.
 
Regardless of 'white' applying to skin colour or race, I think it's a daft thing to be proud of. I'll take pride in my achievements, or those of people close to me. But pride in the collective achievements of billions of people I've never met, who lived decades or centuries before I was born?

People seem to be classing race as being like some big club - you don't CHOOSE to be born a certain colour, you don't (at least I hope to god you don't) work just to further the achievements of your particular race.

It's not like any of us had to work towards becoming white is it (with the possible exception of Mr Jackson).
 
cleanbluesky said:
The way I see it is that they are 'proud' of the political identity of being white that is emerging - just as black power rose in the 60s. I see this kind of 'pride' as the willingness to openly support a political idea..
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Nicely put, I see pride as a shared way of brining together a group of people, with nothing in common other than skin tone and a shared history in this case, to bolster their moral against a common "foe".

Its like meeting the token brit when you go abroad, I usually meet the most obnoxious Mansfield skinhead types but cos we have something remotely in common (English :D ) we become mates. I wouldn't give this bloke the time of day if i met him on the street back home
 
Von Luck said:
Regardless of 'white' applying to skin colour or race, I think it's a daft thing to be proud of. I'll take pride in my achievements, or those of people close to me. But pride in the collective achievements of billions of people I've never met, who lived decades or centuries before I was born?

People seem to be classing race as being like some big club - you don't CHOOSE to be born a certain colour, you don't (at least I hope to god you don't) work just to further the achievements of your particular race.

It's not like any of us had to work towards becoming white is it (with the possible exception of Mr Jackson).
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You don't think you can be proud of your ancestors and their achievements?
 
dirtydog said:
You don't think you can be proud of your ancestors and their achievements?
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You know that one question there sums you up DD, I'm happy that you are here to give that side of the story. No im not taking the wees, its good to talk to people with your viewpoint.
 
dirtydog said:
You don't think you can be proud of your ancestors and their achievements?
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No, I don't. I'll be proud of what people I know and care about have achieved, but why would I care about what people I've never met did with their lives?

It's this awful mawkish hanging onto the past with is at the root of so many problems around the world.

Middle East - "we owned Jerusalem x thousand years ago so it's ours now."

Europe - "we suffered under the Nazis and would have more votes in the EU if they hadn't killed millions of us."

England - "we used to rule the seas you know!"

Who gives a monkey's left nut? Live in the present and try to make that a better place. Learn from the mistakes in the past by all means, but all this reverence is nauseating.
 
Efour2 said:
"every black country" is a failure off the backs of White countries suppressing and exploiting them for a few 100 years.
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I can't agree with that and I don't believe the evidence supports it either. Nor does the idea that African countries fail due to the environment. South Africa and Rhodesia have gone right down the toilet since blacks took power from the previously ruling whites.

"yellow countries :p " now they are pretty successful
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I was careful to say black, which means what it says - ie. it doesn't include other non-whites; just blacks.
 
the-void said:
No doubt about that.
;)
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Hah, trolling an opinion. That makes no sense, you should have edited it to say:

"However I'm not going to stop trolling just for you"

:)

I was wrong with my prediction by the way. By page 4 we were onto arguing about race, so we'll be onto Muslims before page 10 at this rate. :p
 
dirtydog said:
I can't agree with that and I don't believe the evidence supports it either. Nor does the idea that African countries fail due to the environment. South Africa and Rhodesia have gone right down the toilet since blacks took power from the previously ruling whites..
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Your a fool! if you really believe that.

South Africa as an example.

The whites ruled the country and used power to keep the blacks lower on the social and educational ladder, keeping them uneducated meant that they didnt challenge the white rule.

Then they handed power back to them, what do you think would happen if you gave power to an uneducated group of people who had seen all the glory and fine things the whites had for the last few hundred years.

Anarchy! they wanted all the things the whites had and wanted them now, they dont understand the fact that you have to work and enducate yourself to get them.

So yes the problems in these countries are purely down to the fact that whites ruled the country and stripped the people of all their wealth and ability to educate themselves.
 
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