OcUK Photo Comp - Season Six : Round Two - "Still Life" RESULTS

[xolotl]

OcUK Photo Comp - Season Six : Round Two - "Still Life" RESULTS

WINNER: yak.h'cir

Total scores for the round

Photographer    Tech    Theme  Impact  Total
--------------------------------------------
yak.h'cir	24	18	23	65
Vipetnet	23	20	20	63
CooliceT	22	19	21	62
Puz		18	23	21	62
King4aDay	20	18	21	59
naffa		21	17	20	58
Mohain		20	19	19	58
brocksta	17	20	20	57
iGiDK		15	20	21	56
Sleepyd		20	16	19	55
TerraS		18	18	18	54
sonyaddict	17	19	18	54
AdWright	19	18	16	53
dod		18	16	19	53
Venus		14	20	17	51
alexisonfire	18	16	16	50
Fstop11		17	17	16	50
DreederOcUK	16	18	16	50
Helium Junkie	18	14	17	49
TomWilko	17	18	14	49
Strax		17	17	15	49
olv		17	16	16	49
Joe T		17	15	17	49
5bjoshua	16	18	15	49
danza		15	17	17	49
Wyvern971	16	19	13	48
robertgilbert86	16	16	16	48
MichaelG	17	14	16	47
nolimit		17	15	14	46
cmt		15	18	13	46
FranchiseJuan	14	17	14	45
Tom1138		14	17	14	45
JonB		13	20	12	45
Oxygen		13	16	16	45
TRiP		15	17	12	44
Tonks		15	15	14	44
Blackvault	14	16	14	44
BeaumonT	15	14	13	42
MookJong	15	14	13	42
AndyBorzi	14	16	12	42
A.N.Other	14	14	13	41
Amp34		14	14	13	41
Fords		12	15	12	39
southy1978	12	14	13	39
Moredhel	11	15	13	39
Colin da Killer	12	15	11	38
growse		13	12	12	37
RichDay		12	15	9	36
lord scott	12	12	12	36
Arsey		11	15	10	36
Howski		12	12	11	35
Scuzi		11	13	11	35
boycee		12	13	8	33
Windle		11	14	8	33
Fireskull	11	13	9	33
ichabod crane	11	13	9	33
mr tommo	8	14	10	32
Cheif Wiggum	6	12	11	29
antc		8	12	8	28
Richard T	9	11	7	27
DR D		7	13	7	27
StevenG		7	10	7	24

Technical marks

Photographer    Tech    Theme  Impact  Total
-------------------------------------------
yak.h'cir	24	18	23	65
Vipetnet	23	20	20	63
CooliceT	22	19	21	62
naffa		21	17	20	58
Mohain		20	19	19	58
King4aDay	20	18	21	59
Sleepyd		20	16	19	55
AdWright	19	18	16	53
Puz		18	23	21	62
TerraS		18	18	18	54
dod		18	16	19	53
alexisonfire	18	16	16	50
Helium Junkie	18	14	17	49
brocksta	17	20	20	57
sonyaddict	17	19	18	54
TomWilko	17	18	14	49
Fstop11		17	17	16	50
Strax		17	17	15	49
olv		17	16	16	49
Joe T		17	15	17	49
nolimit		17	15	14	46
MichaelG	17	14	16	47
Wyvern971	16	19	13	48
DreederOcUK	16	18	16	50
5bjoshua	16	18	15	49
robertgilbert86	16	16	16	48
iGiDK		15	20	21	56
cmt		15	18	13	46
danza		15	17	17	49
TRiP		15	17	12	44
Tonks		15	15	14	44
BeaumonT	15	14	13	42
MookJong	15	14	13	42
Venus		14	20	17	51
FranchiseJuan	14	17	14	45
Tom1138		14	17	14	45
Blackvault	14	16	14	44
AndyBorzi	14	16	12	42
A.N.Other	14	14	13	41
Amp34		14	14	13	41
JonB		13	20	12	45
Oxygen		13	16	16	45
growse		13	12	12	37
Fords		12	15	12	39
Colin da Killer	12	15	11	38
RichDay		12	15	9	36
southy1978	12	14	13	39
boycee		12	13	8	33
lord scott	12	12	12	36
Howski		12	12	11	35
Moredhel	11	15	13	39
Arsey		11	15	10	36
Windle		11	14	8	33
Scuzi		11	13	11	35
Fireskull	11	13	9	33
ichabod crane	11	13	9	33
Richard T	9	11	7	27
mr tommo	8	14	10	32
antc		8	12	8	28
DR D		7	13	7	27
StevenG		7	10	7	24
Cheif Wiggum	6	12	11	29

Theme marks

Photographer    Tech    Theme  Impact  Total
---------------------------------------------
Puz		18	23	21	62
Vipetnet	23	20	20	63
brocksta	17	20	20	57
iGiDK		15	20	21	56
Venus		14	20	17	51
JonB		13	20	12	45
CooliceT	22	19	21	62
Mohain		20	19	19	58
sonyaddict	17	19	18	54
Wyvern971	16	19	13	48
yak.h'cir	24	18	23	65
King4aDay	20	18	21	59
AdWright	19	18	16	53
TerraS		18	18	18	54
TomWilko	17	18	14	49
DreederOcUK	16	18	16	50
5bjoshua	16	18	15	49
cmt		15	18	13	46
naffa		21	17	20	58
Fstop11		17	17	16	50
Strax		17	17	15	49
danza		15	17	17	49
TRiP		15	17	12	44
FranchiseJuan	14	17	14	45
Tom1138		14	17	14	45
Sleepyd		20	16	19	55
dod		18	16	19	53
alexisonfire	18	16	16	50
olv		17	16	16	49
robertgilbert86	16	16	16	48
Blackvault	14	16	14	44
AndyBorzi	14	16	12	42
Oxygen		13	16	16	45
Joe T		17	15	17	49
nolimit		17	15	14	46
Tonks		15	15	14	44
Fords		12	15	12	39
Colin da Killer	12	15	11	38
RichDay		12	15	9	36
Moredhel	11	15	13	39
Arsey		11	15	10	36
Helium Junkie	18	14	17	49
MichaelG	17	14	16	47
BeaumonT	15	14	13	42
MookJong	15	14	13	42
A.N.Other	14	14	13	41
Amp34		14	14	13	41
southy1978	12	14	13	39
Windle		11	14	8	33
mr tommo	8	14	10	32
boycee		12	13	8	33
Scuzi		11	13	11	35
Fireskull	11	13	9	33
ichabod crane	11	13	9	33
DR D		7	13	7	27
growse		13	12	12	37
lord scott	12	12	12	36
Howski		12	12	11	35
antc		8	12	8	28
Cheif Wiggum	6	12	11	29
Richard T	9	11	7	27
StevenG		7	10	7	24

Impact marks

Photographer    Tech    Theme  Impact  Total
--------------------------------------------
yak.h'cir	24	18	23	65
CooliceT	22	19	21	62
King4aDay	20	18	21	59
Puz		18	23	21	62
iGiDK		15	20	21	56
Vipetnet	23	20	20	63
naffa		21	17	20	58
brocksta	17	20	20	57
Mohain		20	19	19	58
Sleepyd		20	16	19	55
dod		18	16	19	53
TerraS		18	18	18	54
sonyaddict	17	19	18	54
Helium Junkie	18	14	17	49
Joe T		17	15	17	49
danza		15	17	17	49
Venus		14	20	17	51
AdWright	19	18	16	53
alexisonfire	18	16	16	50
Fstop11		17	17	16	50
olv		17	16	16	49
MichaelG	17	14	16	47
DreederOcUK	16	18	16	50
robertgilbert86	16	16	16	48
Oxygen		13	16	16	45
Strax		17	17	15	49
5bjoshua	16	18	15	49
TomWilko	17	18	14	49
nolimit		17	15	14	46
Tonks		15	15	14	44
FranchiseJuan	14	17	14	45
Tom1138		14	17	14	45
Blackvault	14	16	14	44
Wyvern971	16	19	13	48
cmt		15	18	13	46
BeaumonT	15	14	13	42
MookJong	15	14	13	42
A.N.Other	14	14	13	41
Amp34		14	14	13	41
southy1978	12	14	13	39
Moredhel	11	15	13	39
TRiP		15	17	12	44
AndyBorzi	14	16	12	42
JonB		13	20	12	45
growse		13	12	12	37
Fords		12	15	12	39
lord scott	12	12	12	36
Colin da Killer	12	15	11	38
Howski		12	12	11	35
Scuzi		11	13	11	35
Cheif Wiggum	6	12	11	29
Arsey		11	15	10	36
mr tommo	8	14	10	32
RichDay		12	15	9	36
Fireskull	11	13	9	33
ichabod crane	11	13	9	33
boycee		12	13	8	33
Windle		11	14	8	33
antc		8	12	8	28
Richard T	9	11	7	27
DR D		7	13	7	27
StevenG		7	10	7	24

Results are sorted in four different ways:
1. Total scores: Total, Technical, Theme
2. Technical scores: Technical, Theme, Impact
3. Theme scores: Theme, Technical, Impact
4. Impact scores: Impact, Technical, Theme

 

[xolotl]

Im sorry but that winning shot doesnt say still life to me at all.

Im not knocking your ability Yak coz some of your shots have me in a state of apprecitation but that simply doesn' say still life to me im really sorry.

Which is why if you look at theme marks ten people came higher than him.

 

[xolotl]

mks2005 was disqualified as his image was a bmp. However having checked the entry thread its a jpg. I really don't understand why this is happening as it happened to Alex last month.

Growse, I've emailed them to your trust address.

 

[xolotl]

That been said it still doesnt make it look more like a still life shot.

The point is that the image won not due to its strength in the theme category but its strength in Technical and Impact. Theme wise it was average. I suppose its a weakness in the judging system. There should really be some weighting towards theme.

Regarding mks2005 I've asked Matt and Morgan to judge it considering there appears to have been an error on my part.

 

[xolotl]

good shot, but fire is quick and dangerous, not still and ... still.

I think Yak explained that the actual shot isn't fire. Some kind of liquid I think.

 

[xolotl]

I quietly agree that frozen motion doesn't mean still life to me (or the dictionary). And with theme having an equal weight this does allow technically great pictures to win regardless of their relevance, which it seems a lot of us agree is not how it should work.

Can we ask the judges/organisers then to discuss a weighting on theme relevance for future competitions please?

Also, they could kindly explain themselves as to how they reached such a high grade (18/23) for theme in this case. It could clear up the issue and sway others opinions also.

Yak got 18 theme points. Which compared to other rounds that isn't particularly high. Averaged out each judge would have given 6 theme points out of 10. Not a particularly brilliant score but above the average of 15.8.

I think one of the problems this round was that there were not any stand out amazing pictures. While the standard of entries was, as always splendid relative to other rounds statistically they weren't as good.

For example the average score this round was 44.7 yet for round one it was 52.1. Had there been a photo that encompassed an excellent interpretation of the theme as well as excellent technical and impact scores then that would have won. It just so happened that in this round Yaks excellent Technical and Impact scores made up for his lower theme score. Had the overall standard of entries been higher this may not have happened.

I don't mean that in an offensive way its merely a comment on the statistics.

As for changing the way the photos are scored I don't think its necessary. This system has been working fine for six seasons and this is the first time that a caused a problem of this magnitude. However for the judges it may be worth looking up the classical definitions of a theme before starting the judging.

 

[xolotl]

If the marking for each of the 3 areas fully utilises the range of scores available then I dont really see the need for weighting.

That's an interesting idea. Perhaps marking theme far more stringently would create the desired effect.

An idea I suggest to Scuzi on MSN was this

"At the moment each judge has the possibility of awarding a maximum of ten points in each category. This means that, when added together the maximum score is 90. Perhaps allow theme to be marked out of 20 but keep tech and impact to 10. This would increase the maximum available score to 120 and mean that theme was more crucial to victory."

I'm not a fan of Growse's idea. The interpretation of the theme does not relate to technically how good the photo is. Thus, the theme score should not effect the tech score. However, theme is important when deciding which photo should win. Its for this reason I favour either a bias towards theme (eg. more marks available) or more stringent marking of the theme category (eg. if the photo has no relevance give out 0 marks)

If anyone has any other ideas feel free to mention them.

 

[xolotl]

Morgan and Matt I've emailed you with a suggestion. Could you please have a read and let me know about my suggestion asap.

Also, look at this screenshot of me trying to save mks2005's image. For some reason it comes up as a bmp. Any ideas why this is happening.

 

[xolotl]

but would we really be better off with a system that allowed everyone to vote for images,

Certainly not. There is another UK technology forum that the word filter doesnt allow that also runs a photo comp. What happens with voting is that only the top images get any votes at all. All the other photos hardly get any votes at all. This, to me is not a particularly friendly system and it discourages people from entering. With the judging system at least everyone gets a score.

 

[xolotl]

That's quite a good idea Matt. Just to elaborate on that:

Judges should utilise the whole range from 0-10. At the moment 4-8 are by far the most common scores.

If any judge scores the image 0 on theme it will be removed from the competition.

I think that's a perfectly acceptable solution.

 

[xolotl]

Morgan,

Read the flippin rules

* The Judges will not reveal individual scores, however some judges may provide a critique after the competition has ended.

 

[xolotl]

Regards the new theme, should I just post it in here on should I email judge/mod so its more of a supprise???

I was considering 'glamour self portrait' but decided to go for something a little more conventional

Send me an email.

The only problems I can see with introducing a new weighted mark scheme now is that:

A. It would mean those who did well in the first two rounds have a massive head start as the maximum marks are now 60 instead of 90.

B. Its really confusing.

C. I could do with someone making up to excel spread sheets with the formulas already in.

D. I think the current system is working well. The theme complaint occasionally get raised but never to this extent.

What I am going to propose probably wont satiate you lot but I'll say it anyway. I think if the judges take care to look up classical interpretations of a theme when marking and use the entire mark band then I don't anticipate any more problems.

 

[xolotl]

Nice to see that a few people agree with me. But it appears to me that a "Won't happen again" isn't good enough for a few people.

I think that this problem has occurred for a few reasons.

Firstly my judging on this round was a little rushed. As much as I would like to spend 5 minutes procrastinating about each photo when you have 186 scores to give out this isn't possible. You need to appreciate that we are human and we don't always make the right decision on each photo.

Usually in each round there are 2-3 stand out photos. Personally I don't think the standard of entries this round was particularly brilliant. Because they're wernt any other photos that had brilliance in all three categories this led to the situation we have now. The average statistics I posted earlier prove this and Morgan also agree about this.

I think as well as rushing the judging I don't think I personally took time to look up some of the classical definitions of the theme. This happened because when you get such an obvious* theme such as Still Life you tend to just rely on your own knowledge of the definition. Which in this case led to certain photos not getting the theme scores they really deserved.

While I understand that quite a few of you have strong feelings on the current system I do not see the need for knee jerk changes to the system. I think a set of circumstances that very rarely occur led to some odd results this round. I am not in favour of changing the system because of this. If the system continues to produce anomalous then maybe it is time for a change. But at this moment I am firmly in favour of keeping what we have at the moment.

*If you like obvious themes you'll love round four.