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Ofcoms proposals to improve WiFi for 5Ghz and 6GHz bands

Discussion in 'Networks & Internet Connectivity' started by Flake87, 10 Jun 2021.

  1. Flake87

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 27 Jul 2015

    Posts: 1,250

  2. WJA96

    Capodecina

    Joined: 13 Jul 2005

    Posts: 17,492

    Location: Norfolk, South Scotland

    200mW on 5150-5350MHz (Indoor only), 1W for 5470-5725MHz (Indoor and Outdoors).

    But both the client and the access point have to have the same transmit power and sensitivity of receiver capabilities otherwise it would be like trying to have a conversation with the drummer while standing in the audience at a rock concert. You can hear him perfectly but he doesn’t even know you exist…
     
  3. Flake87

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 27 Jul 2015

    Posts: 1,250

    I've heard this argument before but there are a couple of reasons why it isn't true. It would perhaps apply if the mobile device is stationary, if however you download a large file or stream music / video once it's begun it doesn't matter whether the receiving device moves out of its transmit range, it will still receive.

    In terms of 5G over cellular, Max output power then is 30KW which is clearly massively higher than the communicating device can output, in addition there is nothing to stop a device transmitting on one frequency say 2.4GHz and receiving on another if its available. A smart phone is according to some claims capable of outputting 250mW on WiFi so shouldn't be a problem.

    If it was the case that 1W was previously allowed outdoors that is going to be massively reduced:

    "We proposed to make the band available for RLAN(including Wi-Fi)for indoor use with a maximum equivalent isotropically radiated power (EIRP) of 250mW, and outdoor use with a maximum EIRP of 25mW"
     
  4. Terminal_Boy

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 13 Apr 2013

    Posts: 9,821

    Location: La France

    Where are you getting these 5G base station figures from?

    Max tx power for the latest 5G MIMO base stations is 50dBm/120W compared to 43dBm/20W for 3G and 4G base stations. While MIMO antenna arrays can give all sort of processing gains through spatial diversity etc, you ain’t getting 30KW.

    30KW would pose a significant health risk to most organic life at the millimetric frequency bands that 5G is allowed to use.
     
  5. WJA96

    Capodecina

    Joined: 13 Jul 2005

    Posts: 17,492

    Location: Norfolk, South Scotland

    So you're saying that even if the receiving device moves out of the transmitting range of the receiving device it still will complete a download? So how does it send the ACK bits back to the access point? Or confirm checksums to make sure the download wasn't corrupted? Or do time-sync updates? Both devices have to be able to send and receive for the full download to complete.

    I think you're getting your protocols mixed up. And maybe some of the numbers. 5GHz (and 6GHz) Wireless LAN is nothing to do with cellular communications. You cannot compare the two. And where are you getting 30kW from? Do you have any idea what a 30kW transmitter would be like? I very much doubt there is a 5G transmitter in the UK over 100W. The ones I have seen being installed in teh greater Manchester area are in the 5-10W size range and cover an area about the size of a football pitch. And they have very sensitive receiving antenna to allow for the fact that the phone they are talking to is only sending out 500mW to 1W.

    No, you asked what the currently available bands and power outputs are. They're talking about opening up new bands. The existing ones will remain.
     
  6. Flake87

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 27 Jul 2015

    Posts: 1,250


    "The rules adopted by the FCC allow a 5G base station operating in the millimeter range to emit an effective radiated power of up to 30,000 watts per 100 MHz of spectrum."

    https://assets.publishing.service.g...27840/CfE_Response_Individual_7_TO_UPLOAD.pdf
     
  7. Flake87

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 27 Jul 2015

    Posts: 1,250


    Of course without wishing to teach you how to suck eggs, radio waves are carriers and behave as radio waves regardless of the protocols. The Ofcom report deals with both 5Ghz and 6Ghz bands 30KW I did say was was the Maximum, I did not mention whether any have been installed, and I've been inside transmitting stations which operate in the 250KW power output so I think I have an idea! Most of the sites in GM are small so they can avoid planning requirements probably thanks to David Icke. I don't know the power output of the pavement installed ones are, but given the power supplies and fan cooling I'd be surprised if it's as low as 10W, but then we could be talking about different installations.

    Ofcom are not as far as I can tell talking about opening up new bands, those bands already exist for WiFi, I didn't ask what the current output powers are, I mentioned that they didn't state what they were, which would have been a reasonable statement for ease of comparison. Here they are anyway:

    Current powers are

    Channels 36-64: 200mW.

    Channels 100-140: up to 1000mW (1 watt).

    Channels 149 - 161: 25mW.

    I posted the link so people could have a read and decide if it's of interest, that's all.
     
  8. WJA96

    Capodecina

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    Posts: 17,492

    Location: Norfolk, South Scotland

  9. Terminal_Boy

    Sgarrista

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    Location: La France

  10. Flake87

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 27 Jul 2015

    Posts: 1,250

    Only on these forums can a positive post about improvements to domestic WiFi be turned into some kind of demented argument over conspiracy theories about 5G!

    Please stick to the title material if you are able and comment about that !
     
  11. Terminal_Boy

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 13 Apr 2013

    Posts: 9,821

    Location: La France

    Someone conflated 5GHz wifi with 5G mobile comms and got their panties in a bunch.