Official OcUK Skylake-X & Kabylake-X Review thread

GAC · 2 Jul 2017 at 19:05

Doobedoo said:
I'm saying lets keep it apples to apples. Coffeelake will be out soon and intel will one again offer much better performance, hopefully at a decent price then amd will release zen2 and so on and so forth.

give up doobedoo, zornyan works for intel

Perfect_Chaos · 2 Jul 2017 at 19:07

Anyone else on x99 quite disappointed with x299 so far? I like hardware upgrades as much as anyone else, but if not needing more cores i really don't see any point in the platform change.. so far. I guess Coffee Lake won't offer a great deal more either.

Doobedoo · 2 Jul 2017 at 19:09

GAC said:
give up doobedoo, zornyan works for intel

I'm not really concerned about his opinion as such but I do feel it's important to try and balance it out, if only so that others reading don't get a one sided version of events.

Most of us are able to discern what is what.

zornyan · 2 Jul 2017 at 19:10

Doobedoo said:
The point is it's a mainstream cpu that you are now comparing with a hedt. The 1800x is essentially a 1700 clocked a little higher out of the box for those who don't want to overclock, one is £290 the other is £420 but both are essentially the same.

Threadripper is hedt, coffeelake is mainstream. So when it suits some will compare a ryzen mainstream to intels latest hedt, will the same apply when threadripper is out? Will it be acceptable to compare threadripper with coffeelake? I know threadripper will cost more but so does x299.

I'm saying lets keep it apples to apples. Coffeelake will be out soon and intel will one again offer much better performance, hopefully at a decent price then amd will release zen2 and so on and so forth.

I get the apples to apples in mainstream vs hedt, I was merely saying amd themselves did compare ryzen to hedt initially as a showcase so felt that's where they themselves value ryzen 7 as a competitor.

but as you say we'll see what coffeelake brings us.

and yes I completely agree on we buy what we can afford, I mean there's a reason processors like the g4560 exist and sell so well.

I'm more impressed at how there's such a big difference in the benchmarks at identical clocks when there should only be a 7% difference due to ipc.

could this L2 cache change have improved performance like they said?

RichUK · 2 Jul 2017 at 19:12

zornyan said:
I get the apples to apples in mainstream vs hedt, I was merely saying amd themselves did compare ryzen to hedt initially as a showcase so felt that's where they themselves value ryzen 7 as a competitor.

but as you say we'll see what coffeelake brings us.

and yes I completely agree on we buy what we can afford, I mean there's a reason processors like the g4560 exist and sell so well.

I'm more impressed at how there's such a big difference in the benchmarks at identical clocks when there should only be a 7% difference due to ipc.

could this L2 cache change have improved performance like they said?

Zing!

zornyan · 2 Jul 2017 at 19:12

Perfect_Chaos said:
Anyone else on x99 quite disappointed with x299 so far? I like hardware upgrades as much as anyone else, but if not needing more cores i really don't see any point in the platform change.. so far. I guess Coffee Lake won't offer a great deal more either.

as you said unless going for higher core counts there's 0 point in upgrading unless you *need* that bit better ipc/clockspeed (which is very unlikely )

Doobedoo · 2 Jul 2017 at 19:24

zornyan said:
I get the apples to apples in mainstream vs hedt, I was merely saying amd themselves did compare ryzen to hedt initially as a showcase so felt that's where they themselves value ryzen 7 as a competitor.

but as you say we'll see what coffeelake brings us.

and yes I completely agree on we buy what we can afford, I mean there's a reason processors like the g4560 exist and sell so well.

I'm more impressed at how there's such a big difference in the benchmarks at identical clocks when there should only be a 7% difference due to ipc.

could this L2 cache change have improved performance like they said?

But why wouldn't they? what better way to launch their brand new cpu's than to compare them to it's current ultra expensive cpu's. It's great marketing and show how far they have come on brand new architecture, this should make you as a intel fanboy very happy as now they have been forced to extend their range of new hedt cpu's and bring the one that you wanted down in price by quite a bit.

We know they were going to release the same cpu's again with a slight performance advantage for the same price but amd caused them to play a different hand with the success of ryzen and the threat of threadripper. Would you have preferred to pay £1000 for the 7820x? I doubt it.

It really is good for all of us you do understand this don't you?

Doobedoo · 2 Jul 2017 at 19:29

zornyan said:
I'm more impressed at how there's such a big difference in the benchmarks at identical clocks when there should only be a 7% difference due to ipc.

could this L2 cache change have improved performance like they said?

Could also be down to dual channel vs quad channel ram.

I mean is their that kind of difference between that and x99? I would have thought that would be your metric.

Harlequin · 2 Jul 2017 at 19:32

Cost difference - a 7820x , motherboard and ram is over £1000 , whereas a Ryzen 1700, motherboard and the same ram is £680 , that difference gets you a gtx 1070

zornyan · 2 Jul 2017 at 19:38

Doobedoo said:
Could also be down to dual channel vs quad channel ram.

I mean is their that kind of difference between that and x99? I would have thought that would be your metric.

x99 Haswell e vs Haswell z97 had identical performance core for core, as far as I've seen dual vs quad channel doesn't effect gaming benchmarks, or any of the tests used in that video.

Doobedoo · 2 Jul 2017 at 19:41

Harlequin said:
Cost difference - a 7820x , motherboard and ram is over £1000 + expensive aftermarket cooler , whereas a Ryzen 1700, motherboard and the same ram is £680 , that difference gets you a gtx 1070

The people buying these do not think in such terms they will pay whatever to get the "best", that's just those considering gaming on it. The others who want it purely for it's mutli threading prowess may want to consider threadripper which will likely offer them more for the same or less money.

Ryzen is for those that want a great all round cpu at a great price.

Doobedoo · 2 Jul 2017 at 19:43

zornyan said:
x99 Haswell e vs Haswell z97 had identical performance core for core, as far as I've seen dual vs quad channel doesn't effect gaming benchmarks, or any of the tests used in that video.

Maybe but the point you were making was how much the new mesh architecture makes. Which is why it would make better sense to compare it with x99.

DragonQ · 2 Jul 2017 at 20:25

Harlequin said:
Cost difference - a 7820x , motherboard and ram is over £1000 , whereas a Ryzen 1700, motherboard and the same ram is £680 , that difference gets you a gtx 1070

Yes, unless you already have a GTX 1080 Ti there is no reason to consider X299 if you're only gaming. Obviously there are other benefits to it compared to Ryzen or Z270 though.

zornyan · 2 Jul 2017 at 20:37

DragonQ said:
Yes, unless you already have a GTX 1080 Ti there is no reason to consider X299 if you're only gaming. Obviously there are other benefits to it compared to Ryzen or Z270 though.

to be honest if you're just gaming at 60hz even an i5 will last you years to come.

I don't think anybody buys a r7/x99/299 purely for gaming.

smogsy · 2 Jul 2017 at 20:46

zornyan said:
to be honest if you're just gaming at 60hz even an i5 will last you years to come.

I don't think anybody buys a r7/x99/299 purely for gaming.

im here

i do programming to though

zornyan · 2 Jul 2017 at 21:04

smogsy said:
im here i do programming to though

*anybody but smogsy* lol

Doobedoo · 2 Jul 2017 at 21:07

And all those who don't need the best performing cpu at any one thing but can have something that an do a lot for relatively little money. Hence why the r7's make so much sense.

zornyan · 2 Jul 2017 at 21:24

Doobedoo said:
And all those who don't need the best performing cpu at any one thing but can have something that an do a lot for relatively little money. Hence why the r7's make so much sense.

like ive said, amd do offer excellent price/performance .

but as it stands for the best performance you only have Intel to consider, if price isn't a concern.

now, I'm not saying this can never change, but amd do still have a distance to climb to match intel, I can't personally see zen+ on the same 14mm LPP getting them a 10% ipc increase and 20%+ clock speed increase.

the question will be is what can they pull off with zen2, when they've had 2 years to optimise the same architecture, and are operating on a similar node density to Intel (gloflo 7nm vs Intel 10nm)

TheF34RChannel · 2 Jul 2017 at 21:48

so glad I've moved away from X299

and the ignore button has given me so much peace of mind

I do see some good arguments in here and I'll be following the VRM thing out of sheer curiosity. The Asus TUF mark 2 will be a good indicator...

Perfect_Chaos · 2 Jul 2017 at 22:08

zornyan said:
I don't think anybody buys a r7/x99/299 purely for gaming.

Skylake chips were just as expensive as Haswell-e chips, didn't make sense to me to go yet another quad core when overall system performance would be better with a hex core, even if Skylake did have a bit better IPC.. it was never anything massive.

TheF34RChannel said:
so glad I've moved away from X299 and the ignore button has given me so much peace of mind

Not too subtle