Ok i'm dubbing the n00b hat. What exactly is VTEC?

James_N said:
I love it when people say that, they are sooo wrong :D
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Aye, got my CTR last week (was gonna get an Integra but insurance purposes). The car is infact pretty damn torquey especially when the VTEC kicks, people who say its just revs are just wrong and probably have never been in/driven one.
 
Xellos said:
Aye, got my CTR last week (was gonna get an Integra but insurance purposes). The car is infact pretty damn torquey especially when the VTEC kicks, people who say its just revs are just wrong and probably have never been in/driven one.
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Hmmmm. My definition of "torquey" has been somewhat clouded over the years by exposure to large displacement pushrod V8 engines, but I'll take your word for it :)
 
The car is infact pretty damn torquey especially when the VTEC kicks, people who say its just revs are just wrong and probably have never been in/driven one.
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Actually you will find the torque on the CTR stays the same from about 4-5k right through to red line :p
I know cos I watched one on a rolling road, the torque line was almost perfectly flat after peaking at 145lbs.
 
Dolph said:
You are wrong :) Toyota, BMW and Mitsubishi all use a cam shifting system on some models, as well as cam phasing (VVTi-L, VANOS and MIVEC respectively)

Variable valve timing systems use cam phasing, which doesn't allow for alteration of duration and lift, only a slight adjustment to the timing.
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ty learn something new everyday :)
 
vtec is the term given to an engine wringed dry of upgradable power, low on torque and high on necissity to constantly change gears and prod the loud pedal whilst holding the revs at circa 6krpm+

buy a turbo, vtec is mind bogglingly useless in comparrison
 
Will Gill said:
vtec is the term given to an engine wringed dry of upgradable power, low on torque and high on necissity to constantly change gears and prod the loud pedal whilst holding the revs at circa 6krpm+

buy a turbo, vtec is mind bogglingly useless in comparrison
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Hoo boy. Now that is going to be a popular view on here :D
 
Will Gill said:
buy a turbo, vtec is mind bogglingly useless in comparrison
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Since when was VTEC a contender for a turbocharger? VTEC is an extension of N/A technology, not the ultimate competitor for the turbo market as everyone seems to believe these days.

Its well known by now that you didnt get on with your S2k, but once again you seem to be very familiar with turbo cars before you got it. Which leads me to ask - why did you buy an S2000? You must have known the power delivery was going to be a lot different and you must have test driven it?!?, yet you insisted on acquiring a car that is "low on torque" and is well reknowned for being a milked engine (as are all VTEC's).

I haven't met/spoken to another S2k owner who is as unimpressed as you, perhaps instead of insinuating that it is useless, you should be encouraging prospective buyers to drive it extensively first, something you clearly didn't do.
 
Well, seems I was right. Didn't think it would take that long before someone posted a rebuttal though, the VTEC Fanclub must be slowing down these days :p

This sniping about VTECs and torque does put me in mind of one thing though - at Prestwold, I was able to drive right past an S2000 out of a reasonably slow corner as if it was standing still with a '69 E-Type. Now, the E-Type had around 20hp on the Honda, but it a) had more weight to carry, b) had taller gears, c) had waaaaay worse tyres and d) had me at the helm while the Honda had one of the instructors. So what carried me past it?*

Torque. Lots of it. A 4.2 straight six, despite lacking anything resembling 'high technology' was always going to out-pull a 2 litre 4 pot no matter how much Honda's engineers tried. That's the biggest problem I have with VTEC - at the end of the day, it's a pretty small engine that they're strapping this system to. And while that lets it rev to 9000rpm and consequently produce a pretty nice amount of power high up, it's always going to leave it with a flat but low torque curve. Now, variable valve timing on somethign akin to a Ford 'Cammer' V8 (427 cubic inches, hemi heads with a SOHC in each rather than a pushrod setup).....I reckon that would produce enough torque across the rev range to cause some real damage, and if you could keep the engine together at high rpms then you'd have something very interesting indeed. Stock ones were rated at 657hp @ 7500rpm with a pair of 4bbl carbs :D

* I was feeling rather proud about that overtaking maneuver as I recall.....right up until I hit the main straight and a Ferrari 348 just blasted by me!
 
JRS said:
This sniping about VTECs and torque does put me in mind of one thing though - at Prestwold, I was able to drive right past an S2000 out of a reasonably slow corner as if it was standing still with a '69 E-Type.
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No chance he was in the wrong gear then? Or is that out of the question.

It's a tricky drive the S2000, as is the CTR, ITR etc etc - needs to be kept on the boil. Easy to mess the gear changes up & leave yourself "stranded".

My bosses TD Saab has masses of torque, unfortunately most of that get's through gearing.

I can see how changing gear can freak some drivers out. That's why automatics were invented.

The S2000 can do a sub 14 second 1/4 with ease. One guy on SN did a 13.8x I recall, standard car. WillGill says the performance difference between his Scoob and the S2000 was poles apart. I'd bet there wasn't that much difference tbh.

Vtec cars do the arse dyno no favours.
 
Aye, as merlin says VTEC engines do require you to use the gearbox and push the engine harder than you are used to.

My dad actually said my car was slower than his Mondeo, then I found he'd been changing gear at 3000rpm like he would in his TDCI Mondeo. I took him out for a spin and changed at 8000rpm and he looked down and we were doing 120 quite quickly.

I think WillGill's opinion was coloured a bit because he's had some mental turbo cars (at least a Scoob and a Supra IIRC) and most VTEC's don't provide that kick in the back that a proper turbo car does.
 
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If WillGill's car was 280/290bhp - I'm guessing it'd do a 1/4 in maybe 13.5? Or 13.4?

The S2000 can do one in 13.8.

So it'd be half a second slower over a 1/4, and my money is on the S2000 crossing the line going faster than the scoob.

Now where exactly is this massive chasm of performance between these two cars?

Maybe if the S2000 had £6,000 worth of tat bolted to it man and machine would have got on much better. :)
 
Tim said:
So why is CTR EK9 VTEC > CTR Breadvan VTEC? What changed?

i-VTEC?..
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the EK9 was far more raw, lightweight and a proper type R, that thing had the screaming 1.6l VTEC engine kicking out 180BHP, it would hit 60 in the mid 5's
 
How about the tourqe on this VTEC ATR then :p

ATR_Turbo2.jpg
 
I think merlin has summed it up with "Vtec cars do the arse dyno no favours."

Without that torque kick of the turbo you certainly don't *feel* like you're accelerating quickly however just watch the speedo and the other cars as you pull away from them and you soon realise just how quickly you are actually going.

I must be the biggest convert ever. I've always loved turbo cars and honestly couldn't see myself owning anything else, that was until I drove the CTR/Elise and realised that I could actually *use* the performance rather than brag about how much BHP/torque I have.

Turbo cars are brilliant for producing huge amounts of power and are great in straight line drag races however they are more on/off than an NA which makes them more difficult in the corners (especially the RWD ones, you certainly don't want a huge surge of torque mid bend in one of them)
 
Skywalker said:
How about the tourqe on this VTEC ATR then :p
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Similar to the Prelude.

Having that 400-600cc more displacement over the older Civic/Integra will give you more torque.

Also, the VTEC cuts in very noticably on the H22 engines, so you do "feel" a surge over the smaller engines.

Also, the i-VTEC of the newer CTR is set up to not provide that "kick", it is set up to have as smooth a torque curve as possible - and you don't feel smooth torque curves.

However they do shift - you may not feel it through the "arse dyno", but you look at the speedo, and you can see it happening!
 
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