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Old 6 core Xeons still good value in a world of used Ryzen's?

Discussion in 'CPUs' started by humbug, Jun 22, 2019.

  1. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 33,355

    Your 5820K @ 4.4Ghz: 5080 ST / 25572 MT

    2700X @ 4.15Ghz: 5183 ST / 30245 MT

    https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/13708810

    Look i'm not denying the 5820K is a great chip, it is, why so defensive? doesn't mean the 1600 isn't, your talking about a 15% difference because of higher clocks vs a CPU that's also 3 years old now, and it was less than £200, an entry level CPU from 2016 vs the top end mainstream from 2015.

    WTF is that?

    As for Ryzen 3000, Sub £200 3600 scoring the same at 4.2Ghz as a 4.7Ghz 8700K, it's the lowest clocked CPU in the Ryzen 3000 family, the cheapest, last year the 8700K was the best Mainstream CPU Intel offered.

    I think we should go back to Intel's incremental drip drip BS..... Its why you still have a 5820K. wonderful.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2019
  2. ~>Dg<~

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 1, 2006

    Posts: 32,305

    Location: Notts

    no i still use a 5820k as it does what it needs to pretty well and the competition has offerered nothing over it. your own benchmark scores the 2700x lower than the overclocked 5820k single ipc. so why would i of upgraded to a lower cpu in single core when its playing games ? :confused:

    ryzen has offered nothing. to anyone sandybridge or above. i have said that the new processors show promise if and thats if the benchmark shows what it scores.

    its not defensive.

    if your benchmark is to believed single core ipc put the new amd cpus at around 8700 non k. thats with using nearly double the speed ram. which in games can have huge advantages.

    as i said for 6 months i will buy some varient of the amd cpus. im just seeing whats priced competitive and whats worth upgrading too. i know your pro amd. someone posted the other day you have 1000 posts nearly double anyone else on this forum in the amd thread. so its clear to see where your loyalty lies. your own benchmark does indeed show how weak ryzen is though. you just keep trying to shift goal posts.

    nit picking about ocing and such which ryzens basically cant do. yet intel can. you have to factor that in.

    5 year old 5820k same as a 2700x thats actually pretty cool tbh.

    ive only gone off your benchmarks. shown what similar scoring cpus get to show a actual comparision. the amd 3600 basically is a 8700. nothing wrong with that its decent. you seem to forget you can get £50 intel boards cheap ram. amd you will be paying £100 for board min then more expensive ram to match so dearer than its counter part. so its juggle juggle. the only real reason to go to the 3600 is from a lowly 1600 or the same. you have the board the ram. you get a big boost. which is why they made them.
     
  3. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 33,355

    I don't think you understand what IPC is, IPC is what the CPU does at a given clock speed, a CPU scoring 5100 @ 4.15Ghz has a higher IPC than a CPU scoring 5100 at 4.4Ghz.
     
  4. ~>Dg<~

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 1, 2006

    Posts: 32,305

    Location: Notts

    you get that a faster cpu is faster. your arguement because you are pro amd is basing intel vs amd at stock. why ? because amd cpus dont really overclock so you seem to not allow for that to be considered when its the very factor why people buy intel.

    so even if amd cpu is infront by small amount on single ipc but cant overclock it means nothing ! as its surpassed by intel. you keep saying what ifs . im showing actual proof. with your own benchmark. i dont get why you even responding. i shown the actual scores with your own benchmark to prove this.

    the point of what i shown is there isnt much point in upgrading from what i have but earlier in the thread you made out it was 30 percent increase when a 5820k overclocked is basically a 2700x. then you try to make out your cpu if it could overclock to amounts it cant ever would be equal or faster.

    your pro amd i get it you defend until amd juice runs out your mouth. thats fine.

    would you upgrade from a cpu which is basically has same performance of a 2700x to a 3600 ? for the cost of what new ram new cpu new mobo for basically no difference ? yet you suggested its 30 percent. which it isnt. which is why this whole farsical debate started. im trying to stop some people wasting £700-£1000 based on your non evidence bs.

    i speak bluntly not mad its just how i am. calm actually trying to understand your logic in why you spend 24/7 amd praising.
     
  5. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 33,355

    Actually it went like this...

    From the Ryzen 3000 thread was not "3.3Ghz" it was 4Ghz
     
  6. ~>Dg<~

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 1, 2006

    Posts: 32,305

    Location: Notts

    so not showing the potential of a fully overclocked cpu to make the results look better for amd ? yes ? not like you.

    i did what you did

    2700x scores 4805

    https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/2080

    overclocked 5820k 4.4 ghz scores 5100

    mine does 4.6ghz 24/7 so another 200/300 points. which is close to the 3600 score. so no point in upgrading from a overclocking 5820k. also nothing like what you first suggested.
     
  7. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 33,355

    That's not the point, just like you do over and over again with your "Intel has 20% higher IPC" you made claims that you know not to be true.

    Why not quote that in the thread it was posted and say that against what was actually written?
     
  8. CAT-THE-FIFTH

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 9, 2009

    Posts: 19,440

    Location: Planet Earth

    The ryzen 5 1600 is £105 now,a cheap B450 motherboard is £55,and you can get 16GB of RAM for under £70.The Ryzen 5 1400 tested in the video can be had for £75 secondhand with a 2 year warranty,and a Ryzen 3 1200 for £35 with the same warranty.

    I like using my CPUs for years too - I was on socket 775 until Sandy Bridge launched and only changed over to AM4 late last year. My Athlon XP rig was only upgraded when the Core2 was released.

    However at some point trying to save a few pennies on old CPUs,and dubious motherboards from China or old secondhand motherboards with no warranty is getting a bit silly. Then saying people need to overclock the old CPUs to their edge,with the need of extra cooling,good airflow in the case,etc. What about the extra cost of a better PSU then,or the CPU cooling and extra case cooling required for these old CPUs when pushed?

    The X5650 is over 9 years old and it does not support many modern extensions too. The Spectre/Meltdown mitigations also had an effect on one or two games which I played too(the I/O intensive ones).

    I could appreciate it if these were like 5 years old or something with a decent selection of new or good condition motherboards.

    Then there is the whole USB3.0/USB3.1 support,support for SATA3.0 and NVME drives,etc. Sure you can add cards to do this,but that is more money spent,etc.

    Then what if you want to go mini-ITX or mATX,the newer platforms have better motherboards in these form factors,and the lower cooling requirements do help.

    So what happens if any of these old parts with dubious warranties fail??

    I have an old Llano based rig which works perfectly fine for light tasks,but why the heck would I would to buy one now,when a 200GE is a better CPU overall for £40??

    It's one thing holding onto your old rig for longer,or upgrading an old rig you have now but telling people to buy these old products in 2019 for new rigs is a waste of money IMHO OFC. So if a person only upgrades their CPU platform every 5 years or so,the CPU will be 14 years old by that time?? Plus there is no easy upgrade path at all.

    The cheap person pays twice comes to mind here.YMMV.That's my 2p.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
  9. Emlyn_Dewar

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 15, 2003

    Posts: 12,740

    Location: Chengdu

    I'd have to agree with that. Building one of these older setups is decent if you have nearly all the parts already, but if you're buying everything from scratch the cheap Ryzen is the way to go.
     
  10. MartinPrince

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Aug 14, 2018

    Posts: 1,583

    Precisely, which has been pretty much the main point that most people make as the motherboards were often going for over £100 but if you had one already then it was a no brainer.
     
  11. Kelt

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 14, 2007

    Posts: 10,551

    Location: With the færies

    It's a no brainer to get Ryzen now if you're buying from scratch.

    Ryzen didn't exist when I bought my rig for £175 over three years ago.

    Has to be one of my best buys ever for me.
     
  12. Strife212

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 15, 2007

    Posts: 16,545

    They are definitely no where near twice as fast a clocked Xeon, more like 20%...
     
  13. Hades

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 19, 2002

    Posts: 23,974

    Location: Surrey and London

    Agreed. I'm looking to build my son his first PC (so I can get mine back from his Fortnight playing clutches!) and however I look at it a budget Ryzen build keeps coming out as the best option. I could build him something even cheaper and used but it's buying into a dead end old setup with no future upgrades.
     
  14. DragonQ

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 13, 2009

    Posts: 6,779

    All I know is the leaked Ryzen 3600 benchmarks show it being nearly twice as fast as my 4.3 GHz Westmere chip in Cinebench R20.
     
  15. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 33,355

    I was talking about the 1400, while thinking about the 1600, he's right, i do apologize :) the 1400 is not "twice as fast"
     
  16. CAT-THE-FIFTH

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 9, 2009

    Posts: 19,440

    Location: Planet Earth

    The Ryzen 5 1600 is now under £100 if you shop around!
     
  17. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 33,355

    There'll be one up for sale on the MM in a couple of weeks ;)

    Possibly with Motherboard.
     
  18. sidthesexist

    Hitman

    Joined: Jul 23, 2006

    Posts: 921


    A certain "Oriental" site has them under 75 iirc? probably taxes to add plus a wait for shipping though?
     
  19. CAT-THE-FIFTH

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 9, 2009

    Posts: 19,440

    Location: Planet Earth

    Yeah,and at least from a UK retailer you get a warranty. I wonder if prices will drop lower?