Organ Donation by Default
- Thread starter anarchist
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I'm sorry but I can't really have sympathy for someone who after today doesn't know about this system, it's national news. As for people who "just didn't get around to it", Jesus it'll teach some people not to be so lazy wouldn't it.frosty03 said:
Aye sometimes non-donors get organs taken by accident, but I think he was implying that they would have "convenient clerical errors" so they can steal your organs. Nothing short of a conspiracy theory.sr4470 said:
Genuine clerical errors happen and non-donors have had organs removed. That's an accident though, what you're suggesting isn't really anything short of a conspiracy theory.Biohazard said:
Ulfhedjinn said:
You're forgetting about, the disabled, the elderly, those with learning difficulties, psychiatric illnesses, dementia, the blind, the deaf... need I go on?
Please, do think about others less able than you, some are not "lazy" but are genuinely unable to understand what is going on, or unable to effectively opt OUT. You going to harvest them too?
People in such dire circumstances get extra care from the NHS when dealing with such issues, I myself suffer psychiatric illness and while I'm perfectly capable of dealing with such issues on my own the amount of hand-holding really is crazy because they need to make sure that you understand everything.frosty03 said:
When it comes to people with learning disabilities and psychiatric problems, they make sure that you get sat down and have things explained to you. If you're blind and deaf, you get extra interpretation for you.
Such people would probably be able to opt-out easier than able people with the amount of help and the closer ties they have with the health services, so no, you don't need to go on.
Such people are assisted by carers and social workers, if not their friends and/or family.frosty03 said:
I do know exactly what it's like as a matter of fact, so don't think I'm "looking down on people less able than me" since I'm not completely able myself.
Everyone can opt out, everyone has the option. There is no issue here.
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Just because you can cope, and "think" there are others that can, doesnt mean everyone will. Not everything is as simple as you say.
And before you go on, I have dealt first hand with such unfortunate people, and some cant even give (informed) consent to have their hair cut, much less comprehend the issue at hand... and they still do exist (unfortunately) in our society.
And before you go on, I have dealt first hand with such unfortunate people, and some cant even give (informed) consent to have their hair cut, much less comprehend the issue at hand... and they still do exist (unfortunately) in our society.
Soldato
Opt out idea has massive weak point - namely we would create a situation where the more dead the better chance for someone on particular waiting list. Surely everyone can see how this could go potentially really wrong. People in desperate situation suddenly given a chance to improve their odds....
I imagine that people who truly cannot consent either way would be opted-out automatically, it'd only be natural. Unless you can show me evidence to the contrary that says people who have absolutely no ability to consent are still opt-in by default.frosty03 said:
Soldato
Im strongly for an opt in system and am against the opt out idea.
Ulfhedjinn said:
No, we must protect those who are on the borderline as well. That is where i fear the problem lies. There are a great many who on the surface, like you expect, to be perfectly capable to opt out, but in reality are incapable of comprehending what is at stake. It will not be fair on those to have their organs harvested simply because they did not understand or know to opt out prior.
I am sorry but I cannot agree with your otherwise "black or white" arguments, since in reality, the world is a whole spectrum of grey. And in such a serious matter, we cannot afford to get it wrong. We may end up causing more suffering than we cure by opting "in" by default.
Soldato
About time too, they should have come up with this idea a long time ago.
It should be something like this:
All persons should have organ donation by default, unless:
1) The childs parent or guardian signs the opt out form
2) The adult signs the form themselves
3) Any person unable to make the decision by themselves, then it should be down to either a parent or guardian or doctors.
It should be something like this:
All persons should have organ donation by default, unless:
1) The childs parent or guardian signs the opt out form
2) The adult signs the form themselves
3) Any person unable to make the decision by themselves, then it should be down to either a parent or guardian or doctors.
Soldato
scorza said:
muslims
Soldato
Basher said:
If people want to give then they should make the effort to do so not the people that dont. How about charities automatically take money from your wages unless you opt out ??
If people want to make the gesture of giving then they should make the effort.
I love the way that people are justifying a complete switch-around by saying "it's still your choice!" It's our choice now, there's no point reversing it.
Plus, no matter what you want to believe, there will be people who don't want to donate who will not (for whatever reason) opt out. I hardly think it's fair to take someone's organs without EXPRESS PERMISSION from that person, or an able person who knows them well enough to communicate their wishes.
Plus, no matter what you want to believe, there will be people who don't want to donate who will not (for whatever reason) opt out. I hardly think it's fair to take someone's organs without EXPRESS PERMISSION from that person, or an able person who knows them well enough to communicate their wishes.
Caporegime
Toryglen-boy said:muslims
Is that a constructive comment with any meaningful backing, or are you just trying to be inflammatory?
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Never...
Why should I be forced to 'opt out' of anything? The state doesn't own my body - alive or dead. It is absolutely preposterous to assume that the UK, a largely liberal state, should be given the authority to make such impositions over the individual. What it amounts to, in my mind at least, is another dangerous erosion of personal liberty. Who knows where this kind of idea could lead next...
Granted, there is certainly a shortage of donor organs, but possibly not through a lack of participation in the donor card system. As we've all heard, even if an person is posthumously found to be a donor, there are all sorts of legal implications that can affect whether the actual harvest can occur, not least the ubiquitous problem of bereaved relatives acting in a guarded and zealous manner.
In my opinion, the organ donor system needs to be changed radically. A system could be developed whereby whenever an individual visits a hospital or GP practise (and assuming they are of sound mind), they could be quizzed as to whether they want to enter the organ donor programme or not. This information could then be entered on to the individual's medical records, and in turn, a national database. This agreement is thus considered legally binding, unless an opt out clause is exercised. No arguments...
I realise there is no perfect solution, but draconian measures by the government is not the answer.
Why should I be forced to 'opt out' of anything? The state doesn't own my body - alive or dead. It is absolutely preposterous to assume that the UK, a largely liberal state, should be given the authority to make such impositions over the individual. What it amounts to, in my mind at least, is another dangerous erosion of personal liberty. Who knows where this kind of idea could lead next...
Granted, there is certainly a shortage of donor organs, but possibly not through a lack of participation in the donor card system. As we've all heard, even if an person is posthumously found to be a donor, there are all sorts of legal implications that can affect whether the actual harvest can occur, not least the ubiquitous problem of bereaved relatives acting in a guarded and zealous manner.
In my opinion, the organ donor system needs to be changed radically. A system could be developed whereby whenever an individual visits a hospital or GP practise (and assuming they are of sound mind), they could be quizzed as to whether they want to enter the organ donor programme or not. This information could then be entered on to the individual's medical records, and in turn, a national database. This agreement is thus considered legally binding, unless an opt out clause is exercised. No arguments...
I realise there is no perfect solution, but draconian measures by the government is not the answer.
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