Our morals and laws come from religion?

Soldato
Joined
3 Jan 2009
Posts
3,310
Location
In west London
Hey guys,

So I'm sitting in my sociology class and I'm reading on the functions of society in a functionalist view. So I came accross that social institutions give values and sacred norms to the people, such values as "do not steal" and "do not kill" are embodied into religion and the law.

So without religion laws like this will never be made?

It will be nice to hear your point of view on this. Also forgive my spellings
I'm on the iPhone lol.
 
Depends what religion you look at I suppose.

But stealing things must always have been wrong?

You take something off someone the other person gonna be annoyed lol.
 
Religion was just the easiest way of legitimising a sensible set of moral and ethical laws within ancient societies.

The laws always make sense - Don't steal, don't kill etc help societies stay strong, but by claiming to be from God people would fear breaking these rules.

Societies with the best laws survived over ones with poor rule of law and this is how they got passed on.
 
Religion was just the easiest way of legitimising a sensible set of moral and ethical laws within ancient societies.

The laws always make sense - Don't steal, don't kill etc help societies stay strong, but by claiming to be from God people would fear breaking these rules.

Societies with the best laws survived over ones with poor rule of law and this is how they got passed on.

Good, concise answer.
 
Religion and law are pretty much the same thing. Religion (In my humble opinion and that of many others) was brought about as a bunch of fables designed to control society. Fast forward 2000 years and the laws which bind our society now serve the same function; minus a few fishsticks here and 5000 people there.
 
Official religion is simply a manifestation of human nature. You can see our application of the same ideals and traits to different subjects in many areas. From hero worship in all it's many forms through to scaring children into behaving with stories of good and bad in various forms.

To get angry at religion is to be angry at human beings in general, and that makes little sense. Some humans are good, some are bad and most have the capability of switching either way. Without a doubt formal religious doctrines, taught by respected members of society played a massive role in keeping our less socially evolved ancestors in line morally, as we do with our children now, so in that way yes religion is definitely a key source of the morals we know to be right today.

This doesn't validate or invalidate any form of religion, it just follows the same patterns we still see today and indeed saw even further into the past and should be taken as a key indicator in understanding human nature.

Can't quite remember who said it, but this quote seems pertinent: If God did not exist, it would be necessary for man to invent him.

EDIT: It was Voltaire :)
 
Last edited:
Some good values happen to be written in religious texts. Others are not. Most mainstream religions - catholicism, islam etc have some shocking values - especially with regard to treatment of women, homosexuals and so on.

As I said, some religions got some values right but our western liberalism and democracy did not come from religion and we do not need religion to shape our values.
 
Religion and law are pretty much the same thing. Religion (In my humble opinion and that of many others) was brought about as a bunch of fables designed to control society. Fast forward 2000 years and the laws which bind our society now serve the same function; minus a few fishsticks here and 5000 people there.

Completely agree.

In the case of adultery, it's is morally wrong to cheat on your partner, but if there was no religion will society still think adultery is wrong?

Bro's before ho's ma man! I think we would still think of it as wrong because I believe most humans have the possessive tendency towards a partner as part of their human nature. If they're not strictly "yours" however, there are less emotions involved and you don't care what happens. Could this be a product of evolution since the foundation of religion? Who knows?! It's practically impossible to know whether cave men acted as we do now or whether they were more like a lion pride.

Official religion is simply a manifestation of human nature. You can see our application of the same ideals and traits to different subjects in many areas. From hero worship in all it's many forms through to scaring children into behaving with stories of good and bad in various forms.

Without a doubt formal religious doctrines, taught by respected members of society played a massive role in keeping our less socially evolved ancestors in line morally, as we do with our children now, so in that way yes religion is definitely a key source of the morals we know to be right today.

Can't quite remember who said it, but this quote seems pertinent: If God did not exist, it would be necessary for man to invent him.

Completely agree with you too Manic.
 
Natural law existed prior to the invention of biblical text. In fact the biblical text was written by humans in such a way as to exploit the natural law and inflict eternal consequence as a result of infringing on natural law as a means to control the population. ie they said that if you sin you will go to hell for ever etc.

Natural law is rooted in property rights and property rights extend to your own body as well.
 
Funnily enough I've actually started writing a small story about religion and how it came to be...

And the story points out that religion was made up to save humanity from itself. God does not exist, Its merely an illusion to trick natural human behaviour into what we we call "moral" behaviour etc.

I must have been really bored..
 
Yes, religion was invented to inflict another humans idea of what is morel on to the population. If they just said that you shouldn't steal and lie etc, then no one would have taken it as serious as if they said that God himself said that you shouldn't lie and steal.

But regardless of a god it is obvious that theft and lies are not favourable. No one wants their property stolen and no one wants to be lied to. We do not need religion to know that, even babies that have not heard the religious brainwashing know from a young age the concept of ownership. You see two three year olds playing and the one has a car and another takes it, he starts crying because he lost his property. We can see the same traits in other species. This is fundamental natural law of reality and does not exist because of religion.
 
Last edited:
As a Christian, I believe that God laid down sensible laws for us to live by. However, I also believe that man can work out most of these laws from experience. As such, I sympathise with secular humanists, right up until the militant atheist business that seems to go along with their way of thinking.
 
But regardless of a god it is obvious that theft and lies are not favourable. No one wants their property stolen and no one wants to be lied to. We do not need religion to know that, even babies that have not heard the religious brainwashing know from a young age the concept of ownership. You see two three year olds playing and the one has a car and another takes it, he starts crying because he lost his property. We can see the same traits in other species. This is fundamental natural law of reality and does not exist because of religion.

That's selfishness, not morality. The kid who has had his car nicked is upset because he wants it, not because he feels he has been wronged. The kid who has taken it does not feel any moral pang about having taken someone else's property.
 
Some good values happen to be written in religious texts. Others are not. Most mainstream religions - catholicism, islam etc have some shocking values - especially with regard to treatment of women, homosexuals and so on.

As I said, some religions got some values right but our western liberalism and democracy did not come from religion and we do not need religion to shape our values.

How so?
 
No, morals and laws were not created by religion.

Morals and laws were most likely around before religion was created/discovered. I would say religion was/is used to enforce these morals/laws.
 
Perhaps it can be better put another way.

Imagine you are a king or ruler of a dark ages civilisation. Now imagine that you are of the personality type that you have a strong sense of empathy for others, which in turn has given you a strong sense of right and wrong.

Your task is to somehow bend and coerce your subjects to your way of thinking. In your head you want them all to laugh, play and be happy with each. In reality they are a mixture of people who either want to stab, rob, sleep with and sometimes get along with those around them. How do you alter their ways?

1) You punish them, very harshly and often in the hope they will learn like an animal does.
2) They are cleverer than animals though, you might get martyrs and the like, plus you don't like doing all that stuff, so how about using an official document, written by no one man and in fact said to have come from a supernatural source. Many of them cannot read, they don't understand science, the world around them scares them in many ways, so when they are told all about heaven and hell, God and the Devil, by a learned individual who CAN read and is respected, what are many of them going to do? A God fearing fledgling society is a society that can be mostly controlled without the need for capital punishment.

Now of course, the majority of people in the parts of the world where religions are waning ARE equivalent to those learned individuals. Due to a good education system, most aren't in awe of things like magnetism any more. The same can be said for a knowledge of right and wrong and learning to understand the feelings and thoughts of others.

Of course, there is still a large part of society in which religion is still passed down, and combating the effects of parenting is a very difficult and some would say bad thing to do. There has also been thousands of years for people to muse over these teachings and they simply transcend even their original meaning.

As I said earlier, religion is not something to be hated and stamped out, it will slowly filter it's way out of society in any sense beyond being a curiosity, or simply a positive driving force in peoples lives (and nobody can argue that currently it can be a VERY negative driving force in that it offers reinforcement of bad beliefs to some). Religion IS humanity, its a human construct and it's a very key indicator as to how we collectively think as they are written down and rationalised.

Personally I prefer to define religious texts as being well worded philosophical texts rather than instruction manuals, given all that is written in the Bible or any other holy book was written by humans (ignoring the fact that some state their reference was supernatural), where is the major difference between the teachings of Plato and the teachings of the Bible aside from the fact the author is truly known for one and the other is effectively a collection of short stories by different contributing authors!
 
Back
Top Bottom