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Outlook for the economy in 2010 and beyond

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by dirtydog, Jan 3, 2010.

  1. Zethor

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 13, 2013

    Posts: 4,294

    We've been hearing about hypeinflation since this mess started in 2007-2008. When will you people give it a rest?

    http://www.global-rates.com/economic-indicators/inflation/consumer-prices/cpi/great-britain.aspx
     
  2. El Capitano

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 2,577

    So, your argument fell apart.
    Only because you seem to be using a different definition of "Ponzi" and "pyramid" to everybody else.
     
  3. Mr Jack

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 19, 2004

    Posts: 17,244

    Location: Kiel, Germany

    With the Scottish independence vote looking increasingly close, I fear for the impact on the wider UK economy if they leave.
     
  4. q974739

    Hitman

    Joined: Feb 4, 2009

    Posts: 617

    I agree. Fearful - but fascinated.
     
  5. kitch9

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 13, 2008

    Posts: 6,453

  6. kitch9

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 13, 2008

    Posts: 6,453

    So when you look up the definition of a Ponzi scheme in an encylopedia it just says "Fraudulent" and nothing else?

    Awesome. Easy to describe they are.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2014
  7. El Capitano

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 2,577

    From Wikipedia:
    It's the sixth word and it's clear that fraud is an integral part of a Ponzi scheme. If you are not defrauding people, you are not engaging in a Ponzi scheme.
     
  8. Vonhelmet

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 28, 2005

    Posts: 48,109

    Location: On the hoods

    Fine, so it's not a Ponzi scheme, but it is a pyramid scheme of sorts.
     
  9. Judgeneo

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 15, 2010

    Posts: 10,013

    Location: Out of Coventry

    Its a pryamid model of debt, not a scheme
     
  10. silversurfer

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 13, 2004

    Posts: 18,758

    Location: Stanley Hotel, Colorado

    Capital is being repaid with more borrowing. As they threaten with any ceiling to debt, they cannot repay the bonds without first taking in new money.

    Thats a strong resemblance, a fair argument and a point Madoff made himself. Though his was illegal and this one is not, life is unfair like that :p



    In fact politics in USA to some extent can repay all capital even if they couldnt issue new bonds but its very questionable how easily they could do it.
    In fact its a total mess, its not till the tide goes out you see whose naked I seem to remember someone successful pointing out the illusion of finance exists like this

    Most practical would be to just print off new money which is another form of borrowing. Maybe they could dump various assets, turn the deficit overnight into a surplus to actually really repay but its unlikely as voters wont like cuts to spending that a balanced or surplus budget would require

    That is the whole point, the situation is untenable. Argue over small print but UK runs a deficit and so does USA and Ive not heard in many years any idea they can do otherwise.
    Also they cant really raise interest rates, hence Iam talking about avalanches, massive capital outflows from a country will make us paupers - we do import alot. You cannot turn the heat up on a situation like this, the one choice left is print money.

    IF you get all this and how helpless the most 'wise and powerful' people are, you should have some gold which was where we started 40 years ago before deficit spending got off the leash. It will snap back to that
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2014
  11. kitch9

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 13, 2008

    Posts: 6,453

    Question:

    Who decides what is fraud in law?
     
  12. kitch9

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 13, 2008

    Posts: 6,453

    You are really clinging onto one word to drive your point. How's about instead of cherry picking a few lines from the article why don't you read the whole thing and see where I am coming from. Stop hiding behind a word and maybe you'll see the point I'm trying to make.
     
  13. El Capitano

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 2,577

    I am clinging to the definition of a Ponzi scheme to highlight that our economy is not a Ponzi scheme, yes.
     
  14. Vonhelmet

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 28, 2005

    Posts: 48,109

    Location: On the hoods

    Well, that's a relief, for a minute there I thought it was destined to fail.
     
  15. Slam62

    Soldato

    Joined: Jan 3, 2006

    Posts: 7,295

    Location: Monaco

    Worst current account deficit since sensible records.

    stress testing banks for a housing market crash should interest rates rise.

    Hmm it must be a recovery.
     
  16. silversurfer

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 13, 2004

    Posts: 18,758

    Location: Stanley Hotel, Colorado

    Irony there is the test does not include the scenario of rates at 5%
     
  17. Slam62

    Soldato

    Joined: Jan 3, 2006

    Posts: 7,295

    Location: Monaco

    Well obviously, even when the national debt is 2 trillion, rates will still be at 0.5%

    All we need to do is keep house prices rising, forever.
     
  18. kitch9

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 13, 2008

    Posts: 6,453

    Or keep inflating our currency forever......

    Which we will do.
     
  19. silversurfer

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 13, 2004

    Posts: 18,758

    Location: Stanley Hotel, Colorado

     
  20. Slam62

    Soldato

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    Location: Monaco