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Outlook for the UK economy in 2015 (and beyond)

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Mr Jack, May 13, 2015.

  1. Vonhelmet

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 28, 2005

    Posts: 48,116

    Location: On the hoods

    Ok, so you're using the "unworthy poor" argument which is erroneous. You're talking about a tiny fraction of people.

    I do like the idea of subsidising gambolling, though.

    There's loads of land, stop whining. The population can rise just fine if there's jobs and infrastructure, but the government don't seem interested in funding g either, alas.
     
  2. Chris Wilson

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 28, 2003

    Posts: 3,940

    Location: Shropshire

    God, you can't say that here, in this bastion of Liberalism, don't you realise the abject poverty that exists, and how deluded all the migrants are risking their necks making huge, perilous journeys here? If those exiled from the Calais camp only knew what poverty awaited them....The working class are in rags, unable to transport themselves about, living off food banks, smoking dog ends, dreaming of a pint of beer, and thinking of having to eat their pets when kid number 5 arrives LOL
     
  3. Vonhelmet

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 28, 2005

    Posts: 48,116

    Location: On the hoods

    Two minutes hate.
     
  4. PlacidCasual

    Soldato

    Joined: May 13, 2003

    Posts: 5,609

    Given how historically crap at infrastructure building we have been at a Governmental level allowing net 250,000 people a year into the country was never going to end well. Uncontrolled immigration has put a strain on resources everywhere and the public were not asked if they endorsed this policy instead they were told to stop being bigots if they questioned it. We may have land but many don't want it built over just to accommodate uncontrolled immigration.
     
  5. Chris Wilson

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 28, 2003

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    Location: Shropshire

    The country does not have to build ad infinitum, what's the obsession with making a green and pleasant land with some open countryside into a never ending concrete jungle filled with ever more people?

    We are in massive debt, building more cheap housing to accommodate low or no wage earners doesn't seem a good plan.... Save as yet another disastrous experiment for the Liberal left to engage with.

    Did I really put gambolling....?? I did, didn't I, what a plank! Dear me, must be early thoughts of Spring lambs in these lovely fields ;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2016
  6. Freakbro

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 29, 2010

    Posts: 13,982

    Location: Lincs

    Haha you are hilarious :D

    We've said before, if you dislike the freedoms our liberal country gives you, you can always move to a totalitarian regime, there's plenty out there you would get on with :p

    Also you are wrong, but that's not unusual, as the tax payer subsidises every child, irrespective of income with SMP, free nursery hours from 3, free dental care, schooling, then generous means tested benefits such as Child benefit, childcare tax credits, then at the end some less generous means tested benefits, such a free school meals, free eye tests.

    So being "poor" doesn't get you much more tax payer funding for your children than being "rich"
     
  7. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 7,860

    There was nothing specific in the detail just 'something would be done'. The detail did not match the headlines.
     
  8. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 7,860

    We pay for checks on tenants. no fees.

    Absolutely not. I was talking about the what is know historical performance of Osborne.

    Now the Hard Right are in Govt I see the ordinary worker getting less protection and easier hire and fire with less protection from rogue employers. This has been the right's wet dream for years and with Brexit they will get a lot of their wish list.

    So it is a

    to build houses for the poor in society. Funny even that bastion of market driven capitalism America does it and they do not do 'Left'. What is wrong with giving a stable house for a child to grow up in rather than having to live in one or two rooms? I have said for a while society is like a pyramid and depends for its health on the millions of people who earn poor wages. Ignore them and eventually they will revolt in some way. Hell we have just seen that with Brexit and trump in America. Continue to ignore them or treat them like third class citizens and major disorder will follow. Politiciand should look at the Brexit vote as a shot across the bows from the people. Coming up with new acronyms like JAM is not showing any empathy just mindless spin.

    Indeed. You must be referring back to 'the good old days' pre factory farming when food cost the family ~30% of their wage. The only phone you had was the big red box by BT on a street near you. Entertainment was the local pub and maybe a local dance. You also worked longer, that is everybody not just those who want to/forced to. Summer holidays abroad?? A trip to the coast if you were lucky.

    With the Hard Right in charge we will be returning there or as near as they can manage it because you voted for it. The fact that it was Advisory and they could ignore it but don't shows this is what they want.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2016
  9. platypus

    Caporegime

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    Location: Rhône-Alpes+Cambridge

    Its required if you're abroad like we are/were.
     
  10. platypus

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jul 25, 2003

    Posts: 38,719

    Location: Rhône-Alpes+Cambridge

    Should we let them rot on the streets, or put them up in workhouses instead?
     
  11. Chris Wilson

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 28, 2003

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    Location: Shropshire

    A modern day, charitably run workhouse for unmarried mothers, definitely! A rise in the criminality amongst children with no father figure is traceable back to that surrounding the sea ports where the father would be gone longer than he was home, it's nothing new, and quite understandable :) The fairly recent "Ladette" culture (they called emancipation, in the general trendy way to excuse the gratuitous sexual excesses of women) amongst young unmarried mothers where they failed to give up their socialising to look after their illegitimate offspring made matters worse of course.
     
  12. platypus

    Caporegime

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    Location: Rhône-Alpes+Cambridge

    Ok at least you're putting a roof over their heads I suppose.

    Notsureifserious.gif.
     
  13. Its_Me

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    Joined: Nov 9, 2002

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    Location: In a damp cave

    I kind of understand what Chris is getting at.

    However, I don't agree with his sentiments.
    Is it the social issue ?

    http://www.open.ac.uk/blogs/beyondmalerolemodels/?p=29
     
  14. wildman

    Soldato

    Joined: Nov 7, 2002

    Posts: 5,262

    Location: pantyhose factory

    The public did endorse it though because they voted for governments who didn't object to it. So to say they didn't endorse it is codswallop. Because the governments we have get to power based on only taking 30% + of the vote is another matter for a separate SC thread.
     
  15. PlacidCasual

    Soldato

    Joined: May 13, 2003

    Posts: 5,609

    My recollection is not perfect but I don't remember New Labour campaigning to bring in uncontrolled immigration. Also the suggestion that a manifesto gives a mandate has always been a little fanciful to me given the extent of there contents and the likelihood of the electorate agreeing with all or even a majority of it.

    People failed to understand the nature of the decisions their Government was making and the politicians were happy to leave them in the dark. I really disagree that the electorate endorsed uncontrolled immigration and complaints about it when it came to pass were simply ignored and derided as bigoted.
     
  16. datalol-jack

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    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

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    You'll also find that according to the Eurotrack survey, we prefer that it should be our right to enjoy freedom of movement and its advantages re retiring, working and living elsewhere in the EU; whilst the attitude flips on the inverse movement. We just want to be squatters in the single market, without putting much in, it appears. Not surprisingly this notion meets heavy resistance (even if other EU members display a similar if reduced inconsistency, with Germans being the most consistent).

    This is from before Dave went in with his big break gambit:
    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/12/03/british-attitudes-freedom-movement/

    It's also interesting to see that not all Nordic countries + Finland are uniform on this axis of their euroscepticism.

    Interestingly, we see free movement from America and the EU as about the same on the desirability scale, with the movement from the predominantly white, English-speaking Commonwealth most favoured (above the other two big blocs); presumably the consideration's that they'll just be identikit Brits with funnier accents (which both culturally and economically hasn't been the case for generations; similarity is not congruence).

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/11/19/majority-support-commonwealth-freedom-movement/

    A few more up to date surveys are in the pipeline to complete before A50 negotiations start. :)
     
  17. Bluntwrapped

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    Seems lots are forgetting, those who can least afford it, often end up paying more for things than those who can.

    Pre-payment electricity and gas meters for example, are much more expensive than the alternative. You have a meter charge, the unit cost is higher and you don't receive any discount like you would for setting up a direct debit.

    Look at all those Wonga type loan companies. Anyone with a decent credit rating wouldn't touch them with a barge pole.
     
  18. platypus

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  19. Chris Wilson

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    Location: Shropshire

    "New Labour" and the Liberal Democrats wouldn't discuss it all and waved their arms in the air with cries of racism and other cop outs. Thanks to UKIP it became a forced topic of manifestos and allowed the shier and more retiring voters to come out and show that it is a genuine and real concern at the polling booths.

    The ignoring of the issue has probably compounded it and people are now also seeing the situation in Europe with international migration on an unprecedented scale, and the politicians are still ignoring it to the extent boasts sent to deter people smugglers are now doing 2/3 of the job for them by running a bloody ferry service for them. Is it any wonder those more to the Right are gaining serious traction?
     
  20. datalol-jack

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    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

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    They're also affected by poor infrastructure and transportation the most -- they have little choice, period. And their voting bloc power under FPTP is not concentrated enough to avoid their incomes being raided either via consumption taxes, benefit reductions or further indirect measures which raise the cost of living.