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Oxford student who stabbed boyfriend could be spared jail 'because of her extraordinary talent

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by johnloo, May 16, 2017.

  1. Ayahuasca

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

    Posts: 18,895

    Location: County Durham

    I use to think that until I witnessed him debate against an actual intelligent person, Peter Hitchens for example destroys him within seconds and Brand then flips and immediately tries to deter from the point at hand and throws insults.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2017
  2. h4rm0ny

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 25, 2011

    Posts: 5,475

    Location: Yorkshire and proud of it!

    I know which interview you must mean. I actually disagreed with Hitchens (very strongly) and still disliked the way Russell was responding. Anyone remember that letter to Brand by an RBS employee after Brand caused a security alert at the branch he worked at? Good stuff.

    http://blog.squandertwo.net/2014/12/an-open-letter-to-russell-brand.html?m=1
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2017
  3. Terminal_Boy

    Soldato

    Joined: Apr 13, 2013

    Posts: 7,085

    Location: La France

    It's almost like rich people can game our justice system, isn't it?

    See Premiership footballers getting a slap on the wrist for killing people with their cars.
     
  4. x-st

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 30, 2016

    Posts: 1,315

    Was just asked about this in a Yougov survey!
     
  5. Orionaut

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 2, 2012

    Posts: 6,522

    Life is like a **** Sandwich. The more Bread you have, the less **** you have to eat...:p

    Twas ever thus.

    Perhaps a more useful way of looking at it however, typically in a Criminal case, the State holds all the cards. They have access to almost unlimited resources, both in the investigation and in the prosecution of the case. Something that only the most wealthy defendants have (Or to a somewhat lesser extent, the poorest, if you are stuck in the middle class middle, you are basically screwed)

    I do not know what the stats are in the UK, but according to Mike Moore, something like 96+% of cases in the USA never go to trial. Trials are actually very rare. Almost everybody makes some sort of plea bargan. Now sure, many of these people will be Guilty. But quite a few will not be. No Police force is giong to have a near 100% record for getting the right guy.

    Basically innocent people will make pleas because they dare not risk the ruinous costs of mounting a defence nor are they willing to risk the savage sentence that will inevitably be handed down should they attempt a defence and loose. (Savage sentencing at trial is to discourage people from attempting defences)

    The unfairness here isn't that Rich people can mount effective defences and sometimes appear to, as a result,get away with things that most others would not. That is an envy driven smokescreen masking the real problem.

    And that is that perhaps the vast majority of defendants do not get adequate defences and as a result do not get a just outcome.

    It is not that wealthy people are getting an unfair advantage. It is more that everybody else is getting an unfair disadvantage.
     
  6. Ayahuasca

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

    Posts: 18,895

    Location: County Durham

  7. TJM

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jun 10, 2007

    Posts: 2,269

    Conditional discharges are pretty standard for a first time shoplifter.
     
  8. datalol-jack

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 6,178

    History and risk play a part. There's also a balance to be struck between deterrence and destructiveness for its own sake in any justice system. In a social context, we care more about a pattern of behaviour rather than one or two singular extremes. In a perfect world, all elements of the justice system would be drawn from a broad enough pool to offset each other's biases, but this is simply not the case now. Similarly, for resource disparity and access to justice being a problem outside the justice system itself. Puritan arguments aside, I'm also yet to be convinced that harsh punishments for first offenders engender their subsequent cooperation and re-integration into society better than a moderate or mild punishment and social pressure.
     
  9. Vonhelmet

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 28, 2005

    Posts: 48,109

    Location: On the hoods

    The thread title reminds me of the king in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. "She's got extraordinary... talents"
     
  10. nashathedog

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Sep 12, 2013

    Posts: 8,630

    Location: Knowhere

    How good is she?
    Are we talking about someone who could very well be the next Marie Curie or are we simply talking about a regular Oxford graduate?
     
  11. momentimori

    Hitman

    Joined: Nov 3, 2004

    Posts: 633

    Location: Back O'Bourke

    I'll guess it's something on the lines of her father is in the same masonic lodge as the judge; or perhaps some other form of 'connection'.
     
  12. {T5K}TT

    Gangster

    Joined: Jan 15, 2004

    Posts: 424

    Location: UK

    The Oxford University student in question, Lavinia Woodward, was sentenced to 10 months in prison, suspended for 18 months. Usually, this kind of thing gets one a prison sentence (ie, actually doing time, not suspended time). It seems that attending Oxford University, as I did, comes with a free get-out-of-jail card. I'm not tempted to try to see if my one works too!
     
  13. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 42,605

    I think it is more about being a hot white female with good prospects and having an old male judge rather than specifically the Oxford thing.
     
  14. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 64,320

    Did the judge attend Oxford?
     
  15. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005

    Posts: 32,202

    Location: Co Durham

    Potentially if she can get over her alcohol and drugs problem, she could be a heart surgeon.......................
     
  16. FlakGunna

    Perma Banned

    Joined: Aug 17, 2017

    Posts: 1,329

    An extraordinary talent for drinking and taking drugs then becoming aggressive and stabbing people.

    This justice system is a ******* joke. I have no words... I need to get away from this country.
     
  17. Meridian

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 11,861

    Location: Vvardenfell

    Can I suggest people read this article, which covers the case in detail, and does not simply pander to the prejudice of the readers, like the newspaper versions. Even before I read the article, and without seeing a picture of the accused, my feeling was that sending her to prison would be silly, and achieve nothing apart from smug satisfaction in Mein Kampf Daily Mail readers. As is usually the case, the papers are too interested in spinning their angle to actually explain the story.
     
  18. Vonhelmet

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 28, 2005

    Posts: 48,109

    Location: On the hoods

    The real sentence is the damage to her career prospects.
     
  19. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005

    Posts: 32,202

    Location: Co Durham

    I know all of that, read similar before. But the point still stands if this had been some crack head male on a Newcastle estate, no matter how remorseful he was, I very much doubt he would avoid jail time.
     
  20. Vonhelmet

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 28, 2005

    Posts: 48,109

    Location: On the hoods

    You mean if the circumstances were different then the result would be different?