PC speaker advice.. already have a DAC/AMP + headphones

[aoaaron]

So I think I'm converted back to desktop gaming from lounge gaming. My ultrawide monitor has kinda convinced me to stay.

also I love my AKG 712s which felt weird to use in a lounge.

Anyway,

I need some form of speaker system please for my desk. I have a 5.1 + healthy subwoofer downstairs but I could do with something here.

At present I have:

1. Atom
2. AKG 712s
3. JDS atom atom


I'd like at least a 2.1 setup. I really do love subwoofers. I went overkill with my last subwoofer. I bought a monolith and its never gone above 40 percent volume because it causes my remote controls on the window sill to drop off.

Any reccomendations please on a nice audiosetup?

I don't think I need a 5.1 because its not practiclal in my desk environment but a nice 2.1 would be sweet for listening to music and youtube.

And any gaming or critical listening, I'll use my headphones in all honesty.

Thank you for any advice.

I have a huge preference to the KEF sound signature for reference and love a big soundstage although I don't think that really applies as much to speakers.

 

[ToTheMax]

Personally I would consider the Edifier S350DB or the soon (allegedly) to be released S360DB.

Z reviewed the S350DB not that long ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH_-JqaAsOA&t=298s

 

[JasonM]

The problem with almost all 2.1 setups is the satellite speakers are to small, because of this there is a gap in the mid range frequencies - basically the tiny drivers in the small satellites just can't reproduce mid ranges like vocals or piano correct. If it's things like films or games, this won't be a big issue, however for music your sometimes better with just good 2.0 speakers alone.

In a perfect world you should be using small 2.0 studio speakers, then adding a small sub. However this costs more money to put together.

 

[aoaaron]

Personally I would consider the Edifier S350DB or the soon (allegedly) to be released S360DB.

Z reviewed the S350DB not that long ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH_-JqaAsOA&t=298s

i was going to get the S350DB but sadly i cant find a place to fit that subwoofer where it will look good so im thinking of giving it a miss... maybe i could put it under mybed? but i think wire placement with an integrated 2.1 active setup leaves me a bit ****d... at least with a separately bught sub i can buy a looooooong wire and put the subwoofer somewhere where it'll be more hidden and potentially better sounding.. !

The problem with almost all 2.1 setups is the satellite speakers are to small, because of this there is a gap in the mid range frequencies - basically the tiny drivers in the small satellites just can't reproduce mid ranges like vocals or piano correct. If it's things like films or games, this won't be a big issue, however for music your sometimes better with just good 2.0 speakers alone.

In a perfect world you should be using small 2.0 studio speakers, then adding a small sub. However this costs more money to put together.

im game for that.. which 2.0 speakers should i pick? i can add the sub later.. im not in a big rush as i'd potentially like to catch a cut price gemini.

my thought i just need a really easy to access volume knob lol.

my other options are a SMSL AD18 + some bookshelf speakers like the mission LX2s and then buy a subwoofer down the line.

 

[Marsman]

I think passive speakers + something like the AD18 is a good idea. It gives you a good choice of speakers. If you were to look at powered speakers, then you'd need ones with a subwoofer out, and the choice is going to be significantly less.

 

[JasonM]

im game for that.. which 2.0 speakers should i pick? i can add the sub later.. im not in a big rush as i'd potentially like to catch a cut price gemini.

my thought i just need a really easy to access volume knob lol.

my other options are a SMSL AD18 + some bookshelf speakers like the mission LX2s and then buy a subwoofer down the line.

I can't really advise on equipment however can give advice as to what to look for.

In my office I'm running an Edifier S530, however I have replaced the satellite speakers with larger speaker with 5" drivers.

These are the things that are important.

1) Your main sound quality comes from the 2.0 speakers (whatever you choose). The sub should only be for fill in, in other words the sub only makes up the lack of bottom end that's missing from the 2.0 speakers. I would say that you need at least 5" drivers to get some reasonable mid-range. This is why most people into music only run quality 2.0 speakers only. When everything is setup correct the sub should be invisible, obviously when it's disabled your ears notice the sound difference, however in your listening position it should sound like everything is coming from the 2.0 speakers.

2) It's really important to get some desk speaker stands. It's really important to get the 2.0 speakers at the correct height and listening angle. The other thing you must get is foam isolation to isolate the 2.0 speakers. If anyone does not believe this, pick up one of your desk speakers with it playing and see how the sound changes as it's moved and lifted from the desk. Another test you can do it put your hand flat on the desk while music is playing, If you can feel vibrations coming from the desk then your compromising sound due to poor isolation. Not having speaker isolation, or stands is like driving a car with worn bushes and the tracking wrong!

3) Final thing you need a good source, my experience motherboard audio is not that great. Finding a good amp with good DAC and running SPDIF or Toslink from the motherboards realtec is often is the best way of going. How much you spend on the amp is relative to the speakers, speakers should be priority as there putting music into the room. Also without good speakers you won't have the resolution to judge other things in the chain.

 

[aoaaron]

I think passive speakers + something like the AD18 is a good idea. It gives you a good choice of speakers. If you were to look at powered speakers, then you'd need ones with a subwoofer out, and the choice is going to be significantly less.

I can't really advise on equipment however can give advice as to what to look for.

In my office I'm running an Edifier S530, however I have replaced the satellite speakers with larger speaker with 5" drivers.

These are the things that are important.

1) Your main sound quality comes from the 2.0 speakers (whatever you choose). The sub should only be for fill in, in other words the sub only makes up the lack of bottom end that's missing from the 2.0 speakers. I would say that you need at least 5" drivers to get some reasonable mid-range. This is why most people into music only run quality 2.0 speakers only. When everything is setup correct the sub should be invisible, obviously when it's disabled your ears notice the sound difference, however in your listening position it should sound like everything is coming from the 2.0 speakers.

2) It's really important to get some desk speaker stands. It's really important to get the 2.0 speakers at the correct height and listening angle. The other thing you must get is foam isolation to isolate the 2.0 speakers. If anyone does not believe this, pick up one of your desk speakers with it playing and see how the sound changes as it's moved and lifted from the desk. Another test you can do it put your hand flat on the desk while music is playing, If you can feel vibrations coming from the desk then your compromising sound due to poor isolation. Not having speaker isolation, or stands is like driving a car with worn bushes and the tracking wrong!

3) Final thing you need a good source, my experience motherboard audio is not that great. Finding a good amp with good DAC and running SPDIF or Toslink from the motherboards realtec is often is the best way of going. How much you spend on the amp is relative to the speakers, speakers should be priority as there putting music into the room. Also without good speakers you won't have the resolution to judge other things in the chain.

thanks.

due to space constaints, i've gone with Edifier S350DB.

i bought my KEF Q100s down to my desk and they just took too much space up.. and ideally they'd be very good bookshelf speakers for a 2.0 setup. also I'm not sure if i can deal with speaker wire being everywhere positioning was too hard and they were taking over the desk.


unless there are smaller amazing speakers available at the same size as the S350dbs satellties. i think im gonna go with that.

 

[JasonM]

due to space constaints, i've gone with Edifier S350DB.

They will be good for what they are, as mentioned I run Edifier speakers myself, only issue I have is what looks like 4" drivers on the satellite speakers.

Also I noticed the S350DB's have a DAC, unless you have a source thats high quality, then Realtec into this will probably be best.

Going back to those 4" speakers and lack of mid-range. I found this video where someone was comparing S350DB's to R1700BT's. If you listen to vocal sections you see there richer on the R1700BT's due to bigger drivers. But do understand your space concerns, and as mentioned S350DB's will still be very good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNWAFzwRDjc

 

[aoaaron]

They will be good for what they are, as mentioned I run Edifier speakers myself, only issue I have is what looks like 4" drivers on the satellite speakers.

Also I noticed the S350DB's have a DAC, unless you have a source thats high quality, then Realtec into this will probably be best.

Going back to those 4" speakers and lack of mid-range. I found this video where someone was comparing S350DB's to R1700BT's. If you listen to vocal sections you see there richer on the R1700BT's due to bigger drivers. But do understand your space concerns, and as mentioned S350DB's will still be very good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNWAFzwRDjc

do u know which port i should be plugging my edifers into when they come? (havent used PC speakers in ages)


Yeah if the 1700BTs had a subwoofer out, i would have nabbed them and brought a cheap second hand subby at some point. I know I could wire it from my PC with some converters but honestly i CBA with the whole faff.. and im trying to limit wires.

maybe im wrong but i'd rather have flexibility in being able to space them further away from the wall and position them towards the sweet spot than something bigger. i feel like i totally overlooked ergonomics and speaker placement/size in my home theatre room and it made set up a pain in the ass and even now i know im not utilising them to anywhere near what i should be.

thx for that comparison video. i thought the 350dbs were fuller and more balanced probably due to the sub overall.. but i do see where you're coming from.

for any critical listening where I want beautiful crystal clear vocals tbh.. I'm going to be using my AKG 712s.

What my AKG 712s can't do is offer that thumping vibrating bass...

so i think this 2.1 setup + my AKG 712s in theory should have me covered for most of my musical needs.


Ideally I would have loved to have just got an SMSL AD18 + some mission LX50s or kef Q100s and buy a cut price gimini subwoofer on sale... but man the wires and desk space would be a huge sacrifice for speakers which will efficevely be playing the odd song when I go in the shower or youtube video. Any PC gaming is going to be headset.

 

[JasonM]

do u know which port i should be plugging my edifers into when they come? (havent used PC speakers in ages)

maybe im wrong but i'd rather have flexibility in being able to space them further away from the wall and position them towards the sweet spot than something bigger.

You don't mention what your PC sound source is, however I expect you want an SPDIF cable from your motherboard into the yellow SPDIF on rear of the S350DB's. Only exception is if you had a very good sound card, or quality external DAC then you may wish to use this instead and connect into one of the 2 RCA's. BTW some motherboards don't have an SPDIF connector, however the pins are normally on the mother board, then you just need to source SPDIF connector, OCUK don't appear to sell them however you can google for them. The DAC inside the S350DB's will be better then motherboard line out.

Re speaker positioning you want to get the satellite speakers on some stands, then use some isolation foam, can't stress how much difference these 2 things make. Not talking much money, £20 for some stands and £10 for some foam, and it will transform the sound.

I understand what your saying about space however. I'm using 2.5 x Ikea Galant Desks, this gives me a 12.5 foot long of wrap around desk space! Even with this I prefer having the amps inside the sub as to save space.

 

[aoaaron]

y

You don't mention what your PC sound source is, however I expect you want an SPDIF cable from your motherboard into the yellow SPDIF on rear of the S350DB's. Only exception is if you had a very good sound card, or quality external DAC then you may wish to use this instead and connect into one of the 2 RCA's. BTW some motherboards don't have an SPDIF connector, however the pins are normally on the mother board, then you just need to source SPDIF connector, OCUK don't appear to sell them however you can google for them. The DAC inside the S350DB's will be better then motherboard line out.

Re speaker positioning you want to get the satellite speakers on some stands, then use some isolation foam, can't stress how much difference these 2 things make. Not talking much money, £20 for some stands and £10 for some foam, and it will transform the sound.

I understand what your saying about space however. I'm using 2.5 x Ikea Galant Desks, this gives me a 12.5 foot long of wrap around desk space! Even with this I prefer having the amps inside the sub as to save space.

im running it off the motherboard ASUS Strix Z370-F if that helps in any way?

Haha your desk space is where bigger than mine!

Any sexy looking stands you could suggest and foam? I've just tried a little amazon and couldn't find any!


would this foam be alright? https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07D52K1XD/ref=sspa_dk_hqp_detail_aax_0?psc=1
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stageek-Al...&s=gateway&sprefix=speaker+des,aps,148&sr=8-6

do i need foam if i have stand?

 

[JasonM]

im running it off the motherboard ASUS Strix Z370-F if that helps in any way?

I had a look at your motherboard again. You need a Optical Toslink cable with regular size connections on each end. This below

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/ocuk-professional-toslink-cable-metal-3-meter-cb-005-op.html

I'm guessing that the DAC inside the Edifiers will be higher quality then the DAC / electronics on the motherboard, you will just have to try the Toslink, then try a regular RCA connection from the motherboard and judge for yourself.

Over speaker stands, search 'Gear4Music desk monitor stands' on the popular auction site. There are some out there for about £30, only issue is they might be a little to big for your speakers, however I can't find anything smaller.

The isolation foam you linked to is fine if running the above stands I mentioned.

Because of your smaller speakers, these Iso Acoustics ISO130's might be better. With these the you don't need any isolation foam either.

http://www.isoacoustics.com/product...solation-stands/iso-l8r130-speaker-isolation/

 

[aoaaron]

I had a look at your motherboard again. You need a Optical Toslink cable with regular size connections on each end. This below

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/ocuk-professional-toslink-cable-metal-3-meter-cb-005-op.html

I'm guessing that the DAC inside the Edifiers will be higher quality then the DAC / electronics on the motherboard, you will just have to try the Toslink, then try a regular RCA connection from the motherboard and judge for yourself.

Over speaker stands, search 'Gear4Music desk monitor stands' on the popular auction site. There are some out there for about £30, only issue is they might be a little to big for your speakers, however I can't find anything smaller.

The isolation foam you linked to is fine if running the above stands I mentioned.

Because of your smaller speakers, these Iso Acoustics ISO130's might be better. With these the you don't need any isolation foam either.

http://www.isoacoustics.com/product...solation-stands/iso-l8r130-speaker-isolation/

Do you think I should get the edifier 1850db instead and buy a separate subwoofer?
what would be the advantage vs disadvantage?

im considering refusing the parcel and getting the 1850 instead now..

would i get the best of both worlds if i got an 1850db and paired with a gemini using the subwoofer out or will there will be some form of cable issues im not seeing? (as far as i know it would just be a simple subwoofer wire from 1850db to subwoofer and im hoping their dac does the rest with crossover etc? )

 

[JasonM]

The edifier 1850db's + subwoofer will be better.

Personally if it was me I would take the edifier 1850db's even without a sub woofer, but then I value better music / better vocals, and these will give you this due to bigger drivers. You will have the hassle of finding a matching sub-woofer, and possibly a bit more messing around with cables.

Also the edifier 1850db's angle up, there really made to sit on a desk, not really designed for stands.

As you say i'm guessing but the edifier 1850db's cross should handle the correct output for the sub.

Going back to S350DB's. The 2.0 speakers connect in a proprietary manor, so you can't change the 2.0 speakers at a later date.

My Edifier S530's, the 2.0 speakers connect on regular speaker cables. So I was able to experiment with other 2.0 speakers until I found something I preferred (over the stock 2.0 speakers). But with S350DB's due to the non standard cabling, you can't do this.

 

[aoaaron]

The edifier 1850db's + subwoofer will be better.

Personally if it was me I would take the edifier 1850db's even without a sub woofer, but then I value better music / better vocals, and these will give you this due to bigger drivers. You will have the hassle of finding a matching sub-woofer, and possibly a bit more messing around with cables.

Also the edifier 1850db's angle up, there really made to sit on a desk, not really designed for stands.

As you say i'm guessing but the edifier 1850db's cross should handle the correct output for the sub.

thanks man.
i kept listening to that six track compilation and although the 350db had a fuller sound (cos of the subwoofer), i felt like i was missing detail and texture to the vocals (and pretty much everything else). it was sacrificng a commplete sound over a better one.

any suggestions on a decent sub? I was just going to stalk second hand forums and wait for a gemini to come up. do you know any good small subs? I'm a bit tight on space sadly.

also down the line i've realised that a second subwoofer can always just be banged into a home theatre room whilst the sub with the edififers actually tie me down in terms of the versatility of the speakers.

you really did open my mind and educate me in regards to mid range.. I was so focussed on the bass and highs being alright but the loss of detail was evident. I tried to convince myself it wasn't but even doing a blind test with my sister, she was able to pick out the better vocals which surprised me.

 

[JasonM]

thanks man.
i kept listening to that six track compilation and although the 350db had a fuller sound (cos of the subwoofer), i felt like i was missing detail and texture to the vocals (and pretty much everything else). it was sacrificng a commplete sound over a better one.

any suggestions on a decent sub? I was just going to stalk second hand forums and wait for a gemini to come up. do you know any good small subs? I'm a bit tight on space sadly.

also down the line i've realised that a second subwoofer can always just be banged into a home theatre room whilst the sub with the edififers actually tie me down in terms of the versatility of the speakers.

you really did open my mind and educate me in regards to mid range.. I was so focussed on the bass and highs being alright but the loss of detail was evident. I tried to convince myself it wasn't but even doing a blind test with my sister, she was able to pick out the better vocals which surprised me.

For films and games, you want the high's and the big lower end. However for music you want a more balanced sound, as mentioned the sub only providing fill in for missing frequencies. For example if you go in a recording studio there is no subs, just very good quality left and right speakers.

Unfortunately I can't recommend a sub as I don't have enough experience of different ones.

I can give you one suggestion, however it's a bit far out, you could just copy my setup. The S530/S530D's look discontinued but there is stock still out there. I did see a second hand S530D for £125 in Germany. Then you would have to source some good 2.0 speakers, but once you have the S530's you could keep returning the 2.0 speakers until you found something you liked. As mentioned it's a bit far out this, however it's the sort of thing I would do.

Another option is to accept the speakers you have ordered, listen to them, and return them if you don't like them. Remember it takes anything up to 2 days of playing until speakers are run-in and sound correct, and when you first try any new speaker start a low volume and gradually build up over those 2 days.

 

[aoaaron]

For films and games, you want the high's and the big lower end. However for music you want a more balanced sound, as mentioned the sub only providing fill in for missing frequencies. For example if you go in a recording studio there is no subs, just very good quality left and right speakers.

Unfortunately I can't recommend a sub as I don't have enough experience of different ones.

I can give you one suggestion, however it's a bit far out, you could just copy my setup. The S530/S530D's look discontinued but there is stock still out there. I did see a second hand S530D for £125 in Germany. Then you would have to source some good 2.0 speakers, but once you have the S530's you could keep returning the 2.0 speakers until you found something you liked. As mentioned it's a bit far out this, however it's the sort of thing I would do.[/QUOTE


Hmm I think that'll be too complicatred.

Do you think the 1850dbs are enough or is there an alternative speaker with subwoofer out i should consider?
I'm a bit sad that as far as I know I'm losing APTX from the speakers but its only a small issue as its going to be wired nearly all of the time.

 

[JasonM]

It's all a compromise, I think you be happy with just the 1850's. With the option of sub out on the 1850's, at least you have option in future to add one, so it makes the 1850's quite viable. I think the 1850's with a matching sub would be a very good quality desk setup.

Remember with audio it does not go out of date like other PC equipment, so if you get a setup you like, it could be in use for 10 years plus.

With music/sound there is no rules, it's only important that your setup sounds good to yourself.

 

[aoaaron]

It's all a compromise, I think you be happy with just the 1850's. With the option of sub out on the 1850's, at least you have option in future to add one, so it makes the 1850's quite viable. I think the 1850's with a matching sub would be a very good quality desk setup.

Remember with audio it does not go out of date like other PC equipment, so if you get a setup you like, it could be in use for 10 years plus.

With music/sound there is no rules, it's only important that your setup sounds good to yourself.

Yup you're right.. its one of the reasons I really wanted to go passive. I have some Mission LX2s for £49.99 but I think they're just going to be so bit and I can't find an amp/dac to drive them with a reasonable enough price and a sub out.

yeah i should just get the 1850s i guess and call it a day. im still wary if they'll fit on my desk with this big ass monitor.

 

[JasonM]

m still wary if they'll fit on my desk with this big ass monitor.

Have you considered mounting the speakers off the desk, by this i mean at the sides of your desk on floor standing speaker stands.

Search 'QTX Studio Monitor Speaker Stand' on the popular auction site.

Again you maybe have an issue with the 1850's as they sit pointing upwards, and you really need flat sitting speakers for stands.