Penalty Charge Notice - help

Associate
Joined
9 Mar 2006
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East London
Hi, I know there's some PCN gurus on these forums so I'll try my luck here.

I received a PCN, in City of Westminster, for "Failing to drive in the direction shown by the arrow on a blue sign". The charge is because at a crossroads junction there are blue signs indicating that a left and right turn is permissible - the direction straight on is a bus lane only. I'm on my motorbike, and knowing that motorbikes are allowed in bus lanes I proceed going straight on, entering the bus lane.

This will hopefully show the bus lane in question and the direction of travel; https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5...4!1sbi25zsOHDaO2CrXpmjtKtw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I'm going west on Shaftesbury.

There is a circular blue sign with a picture of a bus and bicycle. Underneath that there is a white sign with the text "TfL authorised buses only". Before the junction, you can see the two blue signs underneath the left and right traffic lights indicating direction of travel for left and right respectively. I honestly, truly believed I was well within the law to use that bus lane. Are motorbikes allowed in bus lanes in Westminster or not?

Do I have a leg to stand on if I appeal, or should I just pay the fine?

Thanks
 
Man of Honour
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There is a circular blue sign with a picture of a bus and bicycle. Underneath that there is a white sign with the text "TfL authorised buses only"

I'd say that's pretty clear cut, if motorcycles were allowed they'd be on the sign.
 
Caporegime
Joined
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The simple rule is, unless it is clearly indicated by signage, you should assume that a bus lane cannot be used by motorbikes.

It’s a popular misconception that in London motorcyclists can use all Red Routes, as indicated by single and double red lines at the roadside, yes I know this particular one is not a red route bus lane.

But again as Transport for London’s website makes very clear though, the rule doesn’t apply to all Red Routes, just most.

You still have to check the blue signs at every junction.
 
Caporegime
Joined
21 Jun 2006
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appeal it anyway. there was a recent article that something stupid like 90% of appeals were successful. it is the council after all. no doubt the disgruntles underpaid public sector employee will agree with you unless they are a bitter jobsworth.

what have you got to lose?
 
Caporegime
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what have you got to lose?


More money.

The penalty charge most likely goes up by around 50% after an unsuccessful appeal.

Also unlikely to be able to appeal as I would assume there is photographic evidence OP rode down the bus lane, as that junction has cameras.
 
Soldato
Joined
22 Nov 2006
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23,304
Ask for a photo first (they are required to supply one), if they can't provide one or it's not clear cut then appeal. If there is ANY doubt they will cancel it as a court would simply throw it out.
 
Associate
OP
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Location
East London
Ask for a photo first (they are required to supply one), if they can't provide one or it's not clear cut then appeal. If there is ANY doubt they will cancel it as a court would simply throw it out.

Yeah there's a photo of laughable quality, but when I view the images online it clearly shows me using the bus lane.

It looks like this one is a fair cop then. I'll pay up and put it down as something learned. I genuinely believed I was allowed to use all bus lanes in London and didn't even give it a thought. I'll be sure to look out for signage from now on.
 
Associate
OP
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9 Mar 2006
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1,534
Location
East London
I'm quite worried now as I've used my bike a lot in the last couple of days and have been riding in bus lanes at will (always on the assumption I was allowed). There's a decent chance I've potentially racked up a dozen or so PCNs over the weekend. Is there any dialogue with councils at all about the limit at which they issue PCNs for the same violation? If I haven't had the chance to learn from my first violation then it seems brutal to issue repeated violations over a short time period for the same violation. If they issue a PCN for the number of times I've truly used a bus lane then I could be looking at fines in the thousands.
 
Associate
OP
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9 Mar 2006
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1,534
Location
East London
Photo, make sure the sign is on it too, it could have been covered by a sheet or something so you missed it?

The sign is quite clear in the photo and not obscured.

My main concern now is about the potential multiple PCNs I'm about to receive due to my extensive use of bus lanes over the weekend.
 
Caporegime
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I m afraid each penalty will be a separate incident and if you have racked up several you will have to deal with each individually.

A friend of mine went through 9 speed cams on a stretch of road just 4 miles long and was flashed and caught by all of them , 9 separate fines, 9 separate sets of 3 points, ended with an 18 month ban.
 
Associate
OP
Joined
9 Mar 2006
Posts
1,534
Location
East London
I m afraid each penalty will be a separate incident and if you have racked up several you will have to deal with each individually.

A friend of mine went through 9 speed cams on a stretch of road just 4 miles long and was flashed and caught by all of them , 9 separate fines, 9 separate sets of 3 points, ended with an 18 month ban.

Is there really no provision for dialogue with the issuing council with these things? It's so unreasonable that it makes one entertain the conspiracy of it all be a revenue raising ploy.

It seems I might be in for a painful, and highly disproportionate punishment then. A bitter pill to swallow considering I thought the thing I'm being punished for was perfectly legal until a few hours ago.
 
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