Piecemeal build advice (Next gen?) *Bumped up*

[mark145]

Hi folks,

I put up a post around a year ago before things got scary with COVID shortages and never got round to building anything (I've been making do with the Xbox...). However, the time has come to build something with a bit more power than the Xbox and I could really do with a PC for personal use. I do have a fairly decent work laptop with a core i7 and 32gb of ram and it has really made me realise how slow both my old Macbook Air and Xbox really are.

With that in mind, I'm looking for some advice. Firstly, should I build with current components or go with Rocketlake/Ryzen 4000 ? I know it's always going to be a case of now or never as the components industry will never really 'stop' but if the next generation is going to see a large jump, I'll go with that. Whereas if the jump isn't massive, I'll likely hold out and look to get a good deal when the next gen is released. Although, with that in mind, if I don't hold out are current sockets going to be compatible with the next gen or will I effectively be putting myself an 'extra' generation behind with limited upgrade options ?

If I'm not waiting out for next gen, I'd be interested to see some suggested builds. In terms of my own thoughts and ideas; Ideally, I am looking to spend under £1200 but on the basis I keep putting this off, I'll likely buy piecemeal. I.e. build something with an iGPU then get something dedicated a couple of monthds down the line. I think a mid tier CPU and 32GB of RAM would be sensible as ideally I would like to be able to multitask quite a bit and the occasional adobe suite work will utilise the components. I also quite like the look of the Lian Li 205M purely on the basis it seems quite small and tidy but appreciate I may need something bigger for what I'm asking for.

Lets see what you've got for suggestions.

Thanks

 

[Tetras]

With that in mind, I'm looking for some advice. Firstly, should I build with current components or go with Rocketlake/Ryzen 4000 ? I know it's always going to be a case of now or never as the components industry will never really 'stop' but if the next generation is going to see a large jump, I'll go with that. Whereas if the jump isn't massive, I'll likely hold out and look to get a good deal when the next gen is released. Although, with that in mind, if I don't hold out are current sockets going to be compatible with the next gen or will I effectively be putting myself an 'extra' generation behind with limited upgrade options ?

AMD's AM4 will not be compatible with next gen, because AMD are moving to a new socket.

Intel's 1700 is supposed to be compatible with 13th gen, but to my knowledge Intel have not stated which boards, so compatibility might be limited to certain CPUs/chipsets (it was Z only, with 11th gen CPUs on 10th gen boards). At best, you'll only get one more generation from 12th gen, because Intel have consistently changed the boards after 2 generations.

What generation is the i7 you're using?

 

[mark145]

AMD's AM4 will not be compatible with next gen, because AMD are moving to a new socket.

Intel's 1700 is supposed to be compatible with 13th gen, but to my knowledge Intel have not stated which boards, so compatibility might be limited to certain CPUs/chipsets (it was Z only, with 11th gen CPUs on 10th gen boards). At best, you'll only get one more generation from 12th gen, because Intel have consistently changed the boards after 2 generations.

What generation is the i7 you're using?

Thanks Tetras, that's really helpful.

The i7 in the laptop is an i7-1185G7 - I guess an 11th gen ?

 

[mickyflinn]

What resoloution will you be gaming at ? 4k is mainly Gpu bound so cpu choice wont matter as much.

Next gen Gpu's are suppose to be huge increase over the latest gen cards.

Laptop can you game on that ?

Intel Alderlake will be socket 1700.

 

[mark145]

Ive got two basic 1080p monitors which I will be using but I will likely upgrade to 1440p down the line.

Interesting re the GPUs also. I had thought they were rumouring a small jump with those.

Also no, I won't be gaming on the work laptop. The intention is for a build, just need to decide on the specifics.

 

[Craig_d1]

I would 100% wait now. You have a 11th gen working laptop, so cor non gaming purposes, that is more than enough(intel 12th gen atm so very recent)
The new gpu's are going to be a big leap... Nvidia 3000 series have been out for 2 yrs now... The 4000 series meant to be launching in July...
And am5 platform will be a big jump also... Wait for it.. If you dont want the new stuff, this gen will def be cheaper
The xbox series x is a step up from older models, it makes the xbox one x positively slow

 

[mark145]

Bumping this thread up as I have a hole burning in my pocket.

A combination between being gifted vouchers, prices dropping and things becoming more sensible, I am considering building a lot sooner now.

I've put together the below quickly and wondered if there would be any issues or if anyone could suggest any worthwhile changes ? I suppose it would also be useful to understand if I would need anything else to get up and running? Thermal paste? Kettle plug ? I've got a couple of old SATA drives I would like to slot in, would I need any SATA cables for those ?

Also appreciate I mentioned 32gb of RAM beforehand, likely look to add in 2 more sticks down the line.

MSI MAG B660M MORTAR WIFI DDR4 Motherboard - c £160
Intel Core i5-12600K - c £260
Corsair 275R Case - c £70
Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) c £60
Arctic Freezer 34 eSports DUO - Tower CPU Cooler c £40
Corsair RM850 psu c £95
Crucial P5 Plus c £95

The above would be built with the intention of buying a 3070 or similar shortly down the line.

 

[Tetras]

PSU should come with a plug, as long as is the UK version.

Memory is missing model number so can't say on compatibility.

Cooler includes MX-4 thermal paste.

You can re-use old SATA cables, but the motherboard usually comes with some. I think that board has 2 cables in the bundle, according to the MSI website.

 

[mark145]

Tetras, you must be the resident guru!

Very helpful again on the above. Sorry to keep asking questions but I'll push my luck!

The RAM is - CMK16GX4M2B3200C16 Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4 3200 MHz C16 XMP - I notice the 'XMP', I guess this would need the bios trick to get the best out of it ?

I guess it's safe to assume the MX-4 compound is up to the job?

On the motherboard, I've just gone with a B660m board with WIFI. Otherwise, I'm completely in the dark. Would you be leaning away from MSI or towards anything else?

I've gone with the 12600k on the basis that this should last me a bit longer than the likes of a 12100 or 12400. I'm not too interested in overclocking at the moment but I guess the additional clock speed is sensible if looking forward? If pairing with a 3060ti/3070 down the line, I guess I'll be looking at say 100fps+ at 1440p in most current games and probably be able to remain playable at 1440p for a couple of years?

Also the 275R case seems to come with 3x120mm fans. I'm happy with the overall look and it seems good for cable tidiness etc. Again, would you lean towards something else ? If not, would it be advisable to swap the fans out for something more quiet? I guess it's worth asking if I'll even need these in the interim i.e. while I run it on the iGPU ? (For reference, I'm not too bothered by RGB)

Thank you again for your help!

 

[Haz123]

Yes you will need to go into the bios and enable XMP.

Yes MX-4 is perfectly ok.

Its a very good mobo.

12100 12400 12600 are all very good chips and good value for money. I would say the 12400 is the best of the bunch but is hard to go wrong with them. You cannot overclock on a B660 chipset unless you get a specific mobo that allows BLCK adjustments , MSI are releasing a B660 Mortar Max soon that will allow this and it can get some impressive results, see this video for more info -

Locked Non-K CPU Overclocking, i3-12100, i5-12400 & i7-12700

TeamGroup “Evolving Invincibility” Giveaway: https://bit.ly/3HlM0eq Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/hardwareunboxedJoin us on Floatplane: http...

www.youtube.com

Case is a very personal choice, the one you chose will work ok.

 

[Craig_d1]

other arctic cooler below

I'd be tempted to drop to a 12400f or 12400 if you want integrated graphics and use the extra £80/£100 saved going from a 3070 to 3070ti..you'll see a bigger gain in fps...or just save your dosh

The mortar board is an excellent b660 mobo..used to be more expensive but on offer at mo..best budjet board would be a MSI Pro B660M-A, though that's gone up in price a bit, so personally would go mortar atm

both the 3070fe and 3070tife models are available to buy atm and will save you £100 than buying an aib model(3070fe £469, 3070tife ££549)

the corsair case is a 2018 design..been replaced with the 4000 series, either airflow or x models...5000 series are deeper allowing a lot more room inside...other options would be lian li lancool II or phanteks p400a models, or smaller lian li 011d air model(make sure new version which takes an atx psu)

I'd consider just getting 2x16gb ram straight away if you going down that route...for £123 you can get the vengeance pro rgb version, or the lpx for £112

My basket at OcUK:

• 1 x Arctic Freezer i35 ARGB Intel CPU Cooler (SKU: HS-081-AR) = £36.95

Total: £36.95 (includes delivery: £0.00)​

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Saw you're not bothered by rgb, so below cheaper

My basket at OcUK:

• 1 x Team Group Vulcan Z T-Force 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 PC4-25600C16 3200MHz Dual Channel Kit - Grey (SKU: MY-0AJ-TG) = £95.99

Total: £95.99 (includes delivery: £0.00)​

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[Tetras]

Tetras, you must be the resident guru!

Very helpful again on the above. Sorry to keep asking questions but I'll push my luck!

The RAM is - CMK16GX4M2B3200C16 Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4 3200 MHz C16 XMP - I notice the 'XMP', I guess this would need the bios trick to get the best out of it ?

I guess it's safe to assume the MX-4 compound is up to the job?

On the motherboard, I've just gone with a B660m board with WIFI. Otherwise, I'm completely in the dark. Would you be leaning away from MSI or towards anything else?

I've gone with the 12600k on the basis that this should last me a bit longer than the likes of a 12100 or 12400. I'm not too interested in overclocking at the moment but I guess the additional clock speed is sensible if looking forward? If pairing with a 3060ti/3070 down the line, I guess I'll be looking at say 100fps+ at 1440p in most current games and probably be able to remain playable at 1440p for a couple of years?

Also the 275R case seems to come with 3x120mm fans. I'm happy with the overall look and it seems good for cable tidiness etc. Again, would you lean towards something else ? If not, would it be advisable to swap the fans out for something more quiet? I guess it's worth asking if I'll even need these in the interim i.e. while I run it on the iGPU ? (For reference, I'm not too bothered by RGB)

Thank you again for your help!

Not really, just here for awhile

XMP: You can buy memory that doesn't need XMP and runs at 1.2v, like Kingston kvr32n22s8/8 (not kvr32n22s6/8, but it runs slower than gaming memory and is intended for OEM systems (Dell, HP, etc). If you really dislike XMP no harm in it, but you'll lose a few percent in benchmarks and a few FPS in games.

Bundled thermal paste is fine.

Motherboard: hardware unboxed recommended the MSI B660M-A and it performed well in thermal testing. I'm not sure what the difference is with the Mortar, but in theory it shouldn't be worse, since the Mortar is a premium model.

i5-12600K: aside from overclocking, the big difference with the 12400 is that the 12600K has 4 E-cores (it also has a better IGP, if you care about that). They're mainly of use in productivity apps though, not games.

I don't know if the 12600K will be helpful for high refresh gaming, but at 1440p with a 3060 Ti or 3070, I think you'll often be more GPU bottlenecked than CPU bottlenecked. Would need to look at some CPU benchmarks at low resolutions in CPU-oriented games, to forecast what the difference will be @ their max turbo clock going forward. For nearly £100, my guess would be: not much. For now, the benchmarks seem to support that, but Civ VI is an outlier in their 1440p testing with a massive difference between them @ 1440p and I'm not sure why.

 

[mark145]

Thank you all for the help! Massively appreciated.

On the motherboard, I would ideally like Wifi built in so I think the Mortar ticks the right boxes in that sense. As mentioned, unless there is something out there of better value, I'll stick with that.

On the cooler, I notice the i35 is single fan vs dual fan on the one I linked previously. I suppose the RGB would add something to an otherwise black build. I've had a look around and it seems the single fan doesn't reduce performance overall too much. Should I be worried/lean towards the dual fan ?

On the RAM, I have no worries on the XMP profile. I just wanted to confirm on that. If I went up to 32GB and went with something like the CORSAIR CMK32GX4M2E3200C16 VENGEANCE LPX 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3200 (PC4-25600) C16 1.35V at c £100 would this be suitable/good value ? Should I be looking at 3600mhz ?

Interesting point on the GPU Bottlenecking. I guess Civ VI is probably quite CPU bound with all of the moving elements. Thinking about it, I do enjoy games like AoE, Anno and would probably give Civ a go. With that in mind the 12600k may be the best option. Particularly when considering longevity, my tendency to multi task and occasional Adobe suite/Cad work.

 

[Craig_d1]

Thank you all for the help! Massively appreciated.

On the motherboard, I would ideally like Wifi built in so I think the Mortar ticks the right boxes in that sense. As mentioned, unless there is something out there of better value, I'll stick with that.

On the cooler, I notice the i35 is single fan vs dual fan on the one I linked previously. I suppose the RGB would add something to an otherwise black build. I've had a look around and it seems the single fan doesn't reduce performance overall too much. Should I be worried/lean towards the dual fan ?

On the RAM, I have no worries on the XMP profile. I just wanted to confirm on that. If I went up to 32GB and went with something like the CORSAIR CMK32GX4M2E3200C16 VENGEANCE LPX 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3200 (PC4-25600) C16 1.35V at c £100 would this be suitable/good value ? Should I be looking at 3600mhz ?

Interesting point on the GPU Bottlenecking. I guess Civ VI is probably quite CPU bound with all of the moving elements. Thinking about it, I do enjoy games like AoE, Anno and would probably give Civ a go. With that in mind the 12600k may be the best option. Particularly when considering longevity, my tendency to multi task and occasional Adobe suite/Cad work.

for a 12400, not going to make much of a difference, the coolers are more than enough. Going up to 12600k, they prob still enough, or you could start looking at a 240mm aio/slightly bigger air cooler if you want it to be quiet

 

[Tetras]

On the RAM, I have no worries on the XMP profile. I just wanted to confirm on that. If I went up to 32GB and went with something like the CORSAIR CMK32GX4M2E3200C16 VENGEANCE LPX 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3200 (PC4-25600) C16 1.35V at c £100 would this be suitable/good value ? Should I be looking at 3600mhz ?

Interesting point on the GPU Bottlenecking. I guess Civ VI is probably quite CPU bound with all of the moving elements. Thinking about it, I do enjoy games like AoE, Anno and would probably give Civ a go. With that in mind the 12600k may be the best option. Particularly when considering longevity, my tendency to multi task and occasional Adobe suite/Cad work.

3200 is fine.

Yeah, the 12600K might be the better option for you. About the CIV VI difference, you could be right, but even still, that degree of performance loss between the two CPUs is insane in a game (25-40%) and not replicated outside of productivity, only things like Blender can match it.

 

[mark145]

So most of the shopping list is on its way! Very exciting. Think I'll go with a 2060 rather than the 3070 to tide me over for the moment though.

I have however held off on the RAM as I ended up getting tempted by 3600mhz sticks. Purely on the basis I am thinking about longevity. I am looking at the below but it seems to be optimised for AMD? Does this seem like it would be better than the LPX mentioned above ?

Corsair Vengeance RGB RT 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 3600MHz C16 Desktop Memory​

 

[Tetras]

I have however held off on the RAM as I ended up getting tempted by 3600mhz sticks. Purely on the basis I am thinking about longevity. I am looking at the below but it seems to be optimised for AMD? Does this seem like it would be better than the LPX mentioned above ?

Corsair Vengeance RGB RT 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 3600MHz C16 Desktop Memory​

There's little difference between 3200/3600 with 12th gen CPUs, so I'd get whichever is the best value.

 

[tamzzy]

Since you're not getting a z-series board, I'd suggest getting the 12700f rather than the 12600k for not a lot more dosh

 

[mark145]

Thanks again Tetras, saving me money!

Tamzzy, I plan on running without a GPU for a little while, otherwise I probably would have looked at the next up. I'll put the saved money aside for an upgrade down the line.

 

[tamzzy]

Tamzzy, I plan on running without a GPU for a little while, otherwise I probably would have looked at the next up. I'll put the saved money aside for an upgrade down the line.

i've not had a look at how you're splitting your budget...there's (only) a £60 difference between the 12600k and 12700 (non-f) with the igpu

8p @ 4.9ghz + 4e on the 12700 vs 6p @ 4.9ghz + 4e on the 12600k

12700 seems to be the better option especially as you mention you'd be doing multicore tasks + adobe

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In multi-threaded tasks the 12700 is just shy (~8%) of AMD’s Ryzen 5900x on average, and a bit faster (~16%) in single threaded tasks. Cooling it is easy, and for most users the included stock cooler will actually suffice in most tasks – although it does run a bit noisy. With an expected retail...

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don't let me sway your decision but i highly suggest you have a look yourself and decide