Piecemeal build advice (Next gen?) *Bumped up*

[arknor]

12700 and 12700k are very different btw unlike most other intel cpus. it's not just that one has unlocked multiplier for ocing.

the first is 65watt and the second is 125watt
base frequency 2.1ghz vs 3.6ghz

so dont go looking at 12700k benchs and thinking thats the performance you get on a 12700

 

[Tetras]

12700 and 12700k are very different btw unlike most other intel cpus. it's not just that one has unlocked multiplier for ocing.

the first is 65watt and the second is 125watt
base frequency 2.1ghz vs 3.6ghz

so dont go looking at 12700k benchs and thinking thats the performance you get on a 12700

The boards capable of running them usually don't care about the power limits, some boards will even ignore them straight out of the box, so the TDP and base clock are kind of meaningless and they'll be similar when configured correctly.

Of course, if you do run it wedged at 65 watt then the difference will be huge outside of games.

My understanding is that the non-K models also have some locked voltages that can be a problem with memory overclocking.

 

[mark145]

My understanding was the B660m board wouldn't offer overclocking anyway so that was why I had looked towards the 12600k? Going by Overclockers, its £260 for the 12600 and £390 for the 12700k.

On the basis I've pulled back and going for a 2000 series GPU for the time being, I'll keep the £130 and put that towards 13th gen if I feel the overall experience is lacking/I get tempted.

Although if the 12600k is 125W and the 12700 65W and there's a noticeable difference, I may consider the change what with energy prices...?

 

[tamzzy]

My understanding was the B660m board wouldn't offer overclocking anyway so that was why I had looked towards the 12600k?

why would you get a -k cpu and not attempt oc? which was my point that you'd probably be better served with a 12700 as you're getting a b660 board
most decent b660 boards will unlock power limits however, as @Tetras has mentioned, which is why the 12700 is clearly the superior chip when compared to a non-oced 12600k
a 12700 without power limits can, and will pull 240-250w 200w (edit sorry was thinking about the 11700 lol...) and you'll have the full performance unlocked, which is only marginally slower than a non-oc 12700k

 

[tamzzy]

Although if the 12600k is 125W and the 12700 65W and there's a noticeable difference, I may consider the change what with energy prices...?

the intel tdp is pure tosh. pay no attention, both chips will happily use 200w

 

[mark145]

Could I run the 12700 on the same b660 board? Or would it be better to go with a z690 board.

I had picked the Mortar because of its value and having inbuilt WiFi but I guess I could go for a z690 and chuck in a pci wifi card?

Must admit I had gone for the 12600k because I understood it to be well valued and on the basis I could unlock it with the Mortar board.

 

[tamzzy]

Must admit I had gone for the 12600k because I understood it to be well valued and on the basis I could unlock it with the Mortar board.

you can't use the unlocked multiplier on a b660 board, you need a z690 board
if you mean about the power limits then the mortar will be fine with either chip

Could I run the 12700 on the same b660 board?

yes you can, the mortar will handle the 12700 with the power limits ignored (200w)

I guess I could go for a z690 and chuck in a pci wifi card?

you could go 12600k + z690, but unless you like to tinker (must be me and aging/lack of time), then perhaps something that you can just use without/minimal tinkering ie 12700 + b660 would be a better option?

 

[mark145]

Well this really throws a spanner in the works. I was really set on the Mortar based on it's reviews. The difference does seem noteworthy.

I'm now holding off opening anything that I've received as somewhere has upcoming sales and I don't want to get caught out.

Seems quite difficult to pick a relatively good micro atx, Z690 board though at a similar price? Particularly when factoring in a decent wifi card now too ?

 

[tamzzy]

Seems quite difficult to pick a relatively good micro atx, Z690 board though at a similar price? Particularly when factoring in a decent wifi card now too ?

There isn't.

Well this really throws a spanner in the works

I can't really fathom how its thrown a spanner...

If you want to tinker to get best single core performance then 12600k + z690 (+/- ddr5 board+ram)

If you want something that's (nearly) plug and play then 12700 + b660

Both will work out at nearly the same price, but if you want ddr5 then the -k option will cost more

12600k + b660 makes no sense imo - worst multicore performance of all the options and paying for an unlocked part that you cannot use

 

[mark145]

There isn't.

As in there aren't any good value z690 micro atx boards ? I'm guessing this is a power to size ratio thing ? Difficult to push 200W through a smaller board with less 'onboard components'

There isn't.



I can't really fathom how its thrown a spanner...

The above explains the spanner quite simply. I had originally set out with a £1200 budget in mind and at the moment I'm already pushing £850/900 without a GPU. If I go for z690 and a 12700 that's further pushing the budget up another say £150 ? As I mentioned, I had misunderstood, I thought the 12600k would run at it's unlocked speeds on the Mortar board. I now understand the quirks there and obviously need to reevaluate.

 

[JollyJamma]

As in there aren't any good value z690 micro atx boards ? I'm guessing this is a power to size ratio thing ? Difficult to push 200W through a smaller board with less 'onboard components'



The above explains the spanner quite simply. I had originally set out with a £1200 budget in mind and at the moment I'm already pushing £850/900 without a GPU. If I go for z690 and a 12700 that's further pushing the budget up another say £150 ? As I mentioned, I had misunderstood, I thought the 12600k would run at it's unlocked speeds on the Mortar board. I now understand the quirks there and obviously need to reevaluate.

So that's the sort of situation with buying a PC. Do you go the middle ground route or go higher?

With a B660 board, the CPU determines the frequencies so control isn't possible. You can use a K CPU with a B660 board if you really want to but I agree that the 12700 is a better buy overall.

12700 non K plus a B660 makes sense but even then. the MSI Z690-A pro is £170 so it's not like it's a lot of money for a Z series motherboard.

I also think getting a K series CPU isn't really worth it any more unless you can get sub zero temps. Gone are the days of getting a CPU like the 2600K to way above it's rated speed. You might get a few extra hundred hz but definitely not 1 extra ghz.

 

[Tetras]

OP: I wouldn't worry about it too much, they're all good options and there's nothing wrong with either of those boards. The 12600K has 2 less cores, but it still has the 4 e-Cores (unlike the i5-12600) that can help in productivity. The 12700 is also a good choice, with the 8 P-cores, but ultimately everyone has a budget. The 12600K will run fine on the B660 board (performance will be the same as Z690), you just can't overclock it.

 

[tamzzy]

As in there aren't any good value z690 micro atx boards ? I'm guessing this is a power to size ratio thing ? Difficult to push 200W through a smaller board with less 'onboard components'

As in, the b660 mortar will absolutely handle 200w and is a very valid choice.

 

[JollyJamma]

As in there aren't any good value z690 micro atx boards ? I'm guessing this is a power to size ratio thing ? Difficult to push 200W through a smaller board with less 'onboard components'

There are a few but 200 watts isn't' really an issue mate. Most VRM setups on motherboards these days are fine (I wouldn't pair a 12700K with an H610 motherboard though).

Don't worry about the size, just get one in budget with features you need.

Edit: WAtch this. If you don't know or watch Buildzoids stuff, please do. He's a legend.

 

[tamzzy]

Edit: WAtch this. If you don't know or watch Buildzoids stuff, please do. He's a legend.

haha love 14:00 (hands to heart i've never seen this video before)

exactly what i've trying (and failing) to explain to OP

 

[JollyJamma]

haha love 14:00 (hands to heart i've never seen this video before)

exactly what i've trying (and failing) to explain to OP

It is t Buildzoid who uploaded that video so I’ve had to send him a tweet.

Will get him to upload that video properly though.

And yes, people try all the Time to say that Buildzoid doesn’t have Normy users in mind with computing but he absolutely does. 12700F is better value than 12600K.

 

[mark145]

Thanks for all of the help and pointers folks.

I will get into that video shortly.

The concept of the 12700 being a better option makes complete sense now. I had also confused the case, as I had also thought it was micro-atx. Hence my confusion above when questioning the size of the board. I guess with the case accepting ATX boards, that opens up the field for other motherboard options. Although, I'm surprised the m-atx boards seem to be cheaper than some of the ATX B660m boards?

I think I'll see what the sales come out with but the 12700 and a b660/z690 board with wifi sounds like my best option now (now that I can recognise the £60 price difference that was being mentioned before). Although, I might just end up with the Mortar board if the order hasn't managed to be cancelled...

As someone mentioned before, it's a slipper slope.

 

[tamzzy]

Although, I'm

Less raw materials = cheaper prices
For the most part (SKU dependent ofc) the vrms on the matx boards are identical to their ATX counterparts.
For example the b660 mortar uses the same vrm as the b660 tomahawk. So unless you really need the extra pcie slots then there is no difference in performance

 

[mark145]

Update!

We have life. Thought I would post a reply to say thank you to everyone who posted and to confirm I finally have somewhat of a desktop computer for the first time in over a decade! It was a thoroughly enjoyable experience to build and I was almost disappointed that the build was over when it was complete! Perhaps excluding the CPU power cables and nearby standoff screws which were notoriously fiddly!

I made quite a few changes around the 2 day sale. Mainly, the case, RAM and SSD. Eventually bagging an SN850 1tb drive, 32Gb of Ballistix 3600mhz C16 Ram and an H510 case (I think I might change this down the line)

I've managed to play a few games - Age of Empires, Fall Guys, GTA at low settings on the iGPU. The graphics aren't going to impress many but moving over to a desktop that can open games in the same time that it took to load up the old Xbox One is a great start for me. I'm sure a GPU will be making it's way in soon.

I have had a couple of BSODs but guess these could be down to drivers/installs settling ? Temps seems to be fairly constant at around 30-35 at idle and moving up to 50-60 when gaming on low. I also realised that I had plugged one of the case fans into the pump jumper on the board, this left the PC slightly louder than expected until I realised, the drop in fan noise was actually quite impressive.

Thanks again folks!

 

[tamzzy]

I have had a couple of BSODs but guess these could be down to drivers/installs settling

or something not configured correctly
unfortunately a bit hard to do mid air diagnosis as the issue can be literally anything
in the first instance may be worth doing a bios update to see if it solves any issues (if you're confident doing it yourself ofc)

congrats on your new build