Pizza Help needed.

[2013]

Hi guys,

I need some help making home made pizza from scratch, Ive been buying the pre made pizza with the cardboard tasting bases which im fed up with so ive tried to make my own but i'm having a few issues sauce and mainly the dough.
I can never get it right, first few times I made the dough I could never get it to rise, hard to stretch and would cook like a biscuit, I used plain flower the first 2-3 times and I thought that was the reason, 4th I got some strong flour but had the same issue's, after scratching my head for few days I checked the date on the yeast (out of date) so I tried again after buying some new yeast, this time dough rised well but i'm still having issues with it cooking like a biscuit.

Ive been trying to make thin crust or the normal.

Im not sure if im stretching it too thin or cooking it too long


this is the recipe ive been using

Ingredients

• 500g strong white bread flour or tipo 00 flour, plus extra for dusting
• 1 teaspoon sea salt
• 1 x 7g sachet dried yeast
• 325ml warm water
• semolina dusting, for dusting

 

[Tuppy_Glossop]

Throw in a teaspoon of sugar (helps the yeast work) and a generous tablespoon of olive oil (softens the dough).

Be sure to keep the yeast and salt away from each other until you start mixing (put them in at opposite ends of the bowl).

Knead well for eight mins. Let it rise for at least an hour and a half in a covered bowl (with a bit of olive oil spread around the inside).

No draughts and keep at room temp-ish 20-23.

 

[Hater]

This is what I do. I don't really use measurements, I go off the consistency.

Activate the yeast: About... half a cup of water at 30C or so, mix in your yeast, mix it up well (I put it in a jar and shake shake shake, but mixing with a spoon works too)

Wait 5 minutes.

Pour your flour (bread flour I use, but whatever) in - I use about... hmm, 2 cups? I mix it up and add more water until the dough is -just- unsticky, but becomes more sticky when you kneed it more. Either way, get it to that nice consistency where it's easy to use.

Once it's been 5 minutes of working, add the salt. A pinch or too. Salt will kill yeast, so it's important the two don't come into direct contact.

Now, what I do is use is oil. It keeps everything slippery, kneed the oil in and use extra to lube up the bowl.

I leave it at room temperature to rise for a bit, after an hour I punch it, and wait for a second rise.

I then lube my hands up again with more oil and lay the dough out into my pizza shape, parbake it for 2 or 3 minutes, pull it out, add toppings and away we go for the next 80 to 10 minutes of cooking.

Edit: It should be super duper wet and sticky when laying it down. If it's dry, it'll bake all crispy and... dry.

 

[ci_newman]

I follow the lazy-man recipe below and it has always worked for me (except when the cling film exploded)

I posted a lazy man's pizza dough recipe a while back but it has been tweaked a bit since. Similar to Kimi, this is more of a Neapolitan style pizza dough.

You basically want dough that is about 65% hydration. So something like:

(one small pizza)
150g 00 flour
97.5g cold water
dash of olive oil
small pinch brown sugar
large pinch salt
1/4 a packet of instant yeast

Mix it all together, wrap in well-oiled clingfilm and then leave in the fridge for 24 hours. You don't need to knead. The dough will be even better if you leave it longer - 48-72 hours is optimal in terms of flavour development. If you are in a rush though you can just omit the fridge step and knead the dough as normal.

Take the dough out of the fridge and allow to come to room temperature (couple of hours). You can work with the dough whilst it's fridge temperature but it's more difficult. Take a large piece of grease proof paper and put it on your work surface. Place dough on top. Oil a large piece of clingfilm and place over the top of the dough. Use your hands to crush/spread the dough under the clingfilm until you've made it thin and pizza-shaped. This is totally untraditional but it requires very little in the way of dough handling skills to get a very good result. You can also use a rolling pin if you're that way inclined. Part of the reason for doing it this way is to avoid the dough sticking to your hands (it's quite a high hydration dough so fairly sticky) and to avoid drying the dough out by having to add too much extra flour during the shaping phase.

Leave the dough to rise how it is for an hour or two. In the meantime, pre-heat your oven to one billion degrees and pre-heat your pizza stone (or ideally, a cast iron pizza stone) to a similarly hot temperature.

Remove the clingfilm but leave the dough on the greaseproof paper. Add your tomato, cheese, toppings, etc. Use the greaseproof paper to lift the pizza onto your screaming-hot pizza stone and then place it as high in the oven as you can (I actually use grill mode quite often). It will cook in about 5 minutes and be amazing.

To make your pizza a bit more dominos-like you need to do a few things: 1) add more fat to the dough (try swapping 50% of the water for milk or adding more olive oil) 2) use cornmeal on the edges/bottom of the pizza and 3) make the base thicker/larger (increase all ingredients by 1/3rd).

I usually double the ingredients for a larger base.

 

[bobbyspangles]

There is nothing wrong with your recipe that would explain why your bases are turning out as described. Personally I would up the hydration to around 70% (350ml per 500g of flour) and the salt to 10g per 500g flour, but your recipe will work fine too. I also add a couple tablespoons of olive oil and one of caster sugar but again this isn't necessary.

Definitely use only strong bread flour. You will struggle to get the gluten development with plain flour that's required to trap the gases that cause it to rise and give bread it's texture. Without adequate gluten you will end up with a tight, loose crumb like cake (or biscuit), and if you were making a loaf it would be flat.

Make sure the yeast and salt do not touch in the bowl, add each to opposite sides of the mixing bowl or introduce the salt dissolved in the water. Don't bother activating the yeast if you're using instant/active yeast it will just mess up the hydration unless you're careful.

Make the water up as 1/3rd boiling to 2/3 cold, this makes for nice warm water to help kick start the fermentation.

Mix and knead for 5-10 minutes. Youtube this. Check out the 'slap and fold method' if you're new to kneading, I find it's easier and faster than traditional kneading but will require at least 70% hydration. Once you're done mixing check for the 'window pane', stretch a piece of the dough between your fingers up to a light and you should see the light through and it shouldn't tear. This signals good gluten development and that you're ready for fermentation.

Place the dough in a oiled bowl, and cover. Leave for 1-1 1/2 hours or until doubled in size.

Remove from the bowl, knead the air out, portion, and let rise again for 30 minutes to an hour before stretching out and adding your toppings.

When it comes to cooking ramp the oven up to maximum and use a pizza stone if you have one.

e: Another tip I forgot to include is provided you weighed out the ingredients correctly (always go by weight not volume), there is no need to add more flour during kneading. If it feels wet or sticky just persevere and it will come together into a nice dough. If you add flour you're lowering the hydration which will result in a more dense, tougher bread.

 

[jpaul]

for reference - What is everyone else mileage with 500g flour - that would make 4 9" pizzas for me.

I now add some paprika into the base too, from the start.

Pizza stone was one of the better kitchen investments for what was just ~£10, along with a thin (3) edgeless baking tray to use as a pell, since getting the well hydrated dough into the oven can be challenging.

I was surprised by the parbake idea, since although that will simplify adding toppings, will get a large temperature drop when you open the door, and with most home ovens topping out at 250C it is already difficult to compete with the commerical temp, presumably you cannot use a stone either, as need to get it out fast.

About grease-proof : this will, I imagine, make the dough handling much easier, however does letting it rise when it is stretched not cause it to relax and maker it soggier&less elastiic to withstand toppings ?, I get it topped & in the oven asap once stretched.

 

[2013]

Thanks guys for the help,

Update, I made some changes as suggested above and some of my own.
1. I added some oil to the mix which I had not done before.
2. I double kneaded one as normal and once again after rise and left to rest for another 5 mins (i think this also helped).
3. I turned down the heat to 220 instead of full 250

I dont parbake because I use raw veg, I dont have a stone.

I had better results this time, it was better softer as it should be.

I was aiming for something that came out more like the order in pizza like pizza hut, domino's or even the cheap local pizza shop but this base was more like the frozen pizza you get
so i'm going to try a few other recipes to see which one i like.

 

[bobbyspangles]

Glad to hear it's improving, it's just a case of experimenting until you get the results you like as there are many variables. However I can say the recipe in your OP is absolutely fine, all the essential ingredients are there and in more or less the correct quantities. You need only focus on the mixing, proofing and cooking.

 

[FrenchTart]

Awesome that someone's still using my old lazy man technique

@OP - get a pizza stone (or cast iron one as per the link above). Properly preheated it will allow you cook your pizza for a much shorter time. Biscuit/dry base (at leastvwhen your dough is good, and it sounds like yours is ok) is generally down to overcooking. Typically with home ovens this happens because the lack of decent heat source below the pizza means you end up having to bake for ages to avoid a soggy crust in that area - with the consequence being that all the extra time cooking dried out the top crust.

A separate, though related issue, is browning. Higher temps will brown the crust more quickly, avoiding an extended bake time and hence avoiding drying out the bread. If you find this is an issue you can cheat to some degree by finishing the pizza very close to the grill or using a blow torch.

Once you get a handle on the above you can begin combining techniques to more closely emulate a real pizza oven with your home equipment.

 

[CHokKA]

Hi guys,

I need some help making home made pizza from scratch, Ive been buying the pre made pizza with the cardboard tasting bases which im fed up with so ive tried to make my own but i'm having a few issues sauce and mainly the dough.
I can never get it right, first few times I made the dough I could never get it to rise, hard to stretch and would cook like a biscuit, I used plain flower the first 2-3 times and I thought that was the reason, 4th I got some strong flour but had the same issue's, after scratching my head for few days I checked the date on the yeast (out of date) so I tried again after buying some new yeast, this time dough rised well but i'm still having issues with it cooking like a biscuit.

Ive been trying to make thin crust or the normal.

Im not sure if im stretching it too thin or cooking it too long


this is the recipe ive been using

Ingredients

• 500g strong white bread flour or tipo 00 flour, plus extra for dusting
• 1 teaspoon sea salt
• 1 x 7g sachet dried yeast
• 325ml warm water
• semolina dusting, for dusting

How long do you leave the dough to rise before putting the toppings on and cooking it? We make dough in the breadmaker, it takes 45 mins to make this way and then when it's finished, I stretch it out and leave it to rise for about 30 - 45 minutes. This causes the dough to bubble up nicely and then when I'm ready to cook, I add the sauce and toppings on, being careful not to squash the dough down in the process. Then I put it straight into the oven and the results are perfect everytime.

We use Dove's Farm Organic Strong White flour, or Waitrose Duchy Organic Strong White flour when we make our pizzas. In fact, we're having some tonight!

Ready to go in!


After 8 minutes!

 

[2013]

Ive tried a few different option

1. Leaving it overnight,
2. Leaving i 1-2 hours
3. Leaving it 1-2 hours then kneading it again and leaving it another 15 mins

I thought the results had been similar for all options but kneading it again and leaving it for another 15 mins helped.

 

[jpaul]

but ... leaving it to rise/rest after you have stretched it ? never seen that done by the pros at all - but each to his own
I top it asap after stretch, and get it in the oven, if you are using a pelle you don't want the risk it attaches to that, it will also shrink back a
bit without the topping weight, it is so thin when stretched temperature will be dropping too, so the yeast will be less happy/active
will relax and saturate more easily when the topping is added, you want it elastic.
[the dough in the above picture did not brown much - what was temp - maybe picture is deceiving; was it cooked on a blue silicon sheet ?
deep pan dough probably more resilient to resting after stretch]
I use dough setting in panasonic breadmaker which is 2hr20
- earlier finished pictures in the dedicated pizza dough thread.

 

[2013]

I stretch twice and leave it to rest twice, It does not make any difference to the dough but I have tried it twice so far and to me it seams to have a better structure, feel and taste also after the the 2nd 15 mins i pull it to size and add the toppings.

I'm still experimenting to see what work for me, so i still switching between things to see what results i get, this is one thing I think that works so im going to test it out again the since knead and compare them.

i've not got a bread maker but if i get one ill try it out.

if you try it let me know what you think.

 

[FrenchTart]

Unless you're using a rolling pin I wouldn't recommend leaving the dough to ride after it has been stretched (though I suppose if you're going for a thicker base pizza then yeah, do it).

Definitely try out my tips above. A baking stone and higher temperature baking will sort you out in no time.

 

[Hater]

Lack of oven heat is my biggest issue

 

[PlacidCasual]

For thin pizzas I use an aluminium pizza dish that I can stick on a gas hob whilst I'm dressing the pizza. I don't get the big wooden oven bubbles in my dough but even with a 230°C oven temp I can get a nice crisp base and well finished top in about 8-10 mins.

I do have an Uuni 2s that I use for wood fired pizzas but that has a stone and cooks in 60-90 seconds.

 

[jsmoke]

After 8 minutes!

Impressive. Drool.

Only tip I can give is add some garlic powder or oil to the dough, really changes the pizza. Making a good base is hard. Another tip, cook the base for a few mins before adding any toppings, not to much, then add your topping apart from cheese, cook for a bit then add cheese and finish cooking.

 

[CHokKA]

Unless you're using a rolling pin I wouldn't recommend leaving the dough to ride after it has been stretched (though I suppose if you're going for a thicker base pizza then yeah, do it).

Definitely try out my tips above. A baking stone and higher temperature baking will sort you out in no time.

Yeah, we like our bases to be thick and airy, so that's why we leave it to rise before topping and cooking

Impressive. Drool.

Only tip I can give is add some garlic powder or oil to the dough, really changes the pizza. Making a good base is hard. Another tip, cook the base for a few mins before adding any toppings, not to much, then add your topping apart from cheese, cook for a bit then add cheese and finish cooking.

Thanks! I normally sprinkle garlic oil, or a balsamic vinegar and oil mixture on the pizza before eating, along with salt and pepper. Homemade pizzas are the best!

 

[Hater]

I've never tried adding garlic powder to my bases, going to give that a whirl I think...

I've been experimenting with adding the oil last - ie) making a super duper wet dough and then adding the oil to make it not stick to my hands, has resulted in super crunchy bases that are super soft on the inside.

It's a pity I don't have a stone, I want to try this new recipe with real temperatures.

 

[jpaul]

I think I payed £10 for the Kitchen Craft round stone I have - really my best value for money purchase (probably cheaper than the average Dominos order);
plus, for a pelle, a flat baking tray, bent on one side.