Plug-in solar / Balcony solar / DIY solar

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I don't think balcony solar is a risk assuming all the kit is properly certified (I would certainly have concerns about people importing stuff that may be made cheap that isn't)

The 800w when you think about it is well below the sorts of thing many people will plug in, a fan heater for example

I think my concern is about what people will plug into initially, an extension lead draped out of the window and wrapped in a black plastic bag, seen that plenty for things like xmas lights

Then its, what happens over time. I can see issues coming when poorly installed systems start having things like the DC wire rubbing against something in the wind.
Or probably the one I think is most likely to lead to issues, the bloke who thinks its fine to install 5 systems.

 

[alexakasloth]

Thats all well and good, but the idea with these kits is cheap and simple plug in. If you then need an electrician that adds significantly to the cost of the setup. Most people have no idea what a suitable electrical system looks like, even the pros are disagreeing on the actual risks here.

If someone still has an old fuse board that is not suitable then they need to know what that looks like compared to a suitable unit, and what their options are so that they can make a safe and informed decision. Of course that's going to increase cost to modernise, no two ways about that.
This is only going to work as safely as possible if people are informed properly, minus a percentage of idiots who will ignore guidance.

 

[SkyTerran]

A micro-inverter with 800W peak generation is not dangerous. One can plug a 3100W electric heater in the same socket and keep it on for a month. There are millions of plug-in solar installations across the world and I haven't heard of a single fire that they have caused.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

A micro-inverter with 800W peak generation is not dangerous. One can plug a 3100W electric heater in the same socket and keep it on for a month. There are millions of plug-in solar installations across the world and I haven't heard of a single fire that they have caused.

Actually technically a 13 amp socket is not designed for continuous use (like a month) with high load. (BS1363)
People quote 2 hours at high load as the benchmark but no matter on the exact timing high load over sustained periods its recommended to use a dedicated circuit (ie hard wiring)

 

[Bluecube]

Actually technically a 13 amp socket is not designed for continuous use (like a month) with high load. (BS1363)
People quote 2 hours at high load as the benchmark but no matter on the exact timing high load over sustained periods its recommended to use a dedicated circuit (ie hard wiring)

I’m not saying you’re wrong especially I know nothing about electrics but if this was an issue then how come there aren’t any issues in Europe?

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I’m not saying you’re wrong especially I know nothing about electrics but if this was an issue then how come there aren’t any issues in Europe?

800w isn't 3000w

Its not really talked about but you do get fires from installed systems as well. You would hope they would be installed to a higher level of expertise

UK fire services tackle a solar panel fire every two days - QBE

QBE is a specialist business insurer and reinsurer.

qbeeurope.com

Its just not generally news worthy

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Finally the standard, at least V1, 2 week consultancy

 

[tonys]

I've sort of got the wife onboard with plug in solar(can't have a full install as "we don't have the money and maybe moving within the next few years" her arguments) has anyone used any of the current crop of micro inverters and their apps. Thanks

 

[Jim99]

So from a quick run-through with a GPT, it seems like the main "controversies" are that the spec isn't permitting batteries to be sold in the bundle right now, and that they must be sold as an entire bundle.

Right now, quite a few people are picking up the inverter from one place, and the panels elsewhere, but it seems like the spec is intended to group everything together. It will also prevent using more than one at the same time, which seems fair.

Hopefully more competitors getting involved will bring the price down, and mitigate the higher cost of not being able to pick and choose inverter, panels separately etc.

The batteries not being in-line, I'm thinking, shouldn't be a deal breaker since for most houses under typical generation figures won't be generating much above baseload. And of course you're still able to hardwire a battery elsewhere if you want one - which is probably what I'd do.

Seems like they aren't so worried about the RCBOs, or at least shifting the responsibility onto the homeowner.

 

[Journey]

So from a quick run-through with a GPT, it seems like the main "controversies" are that the spec isn't permitting batteries to be sold in the bundle right now, and that they must be sold as an entire bundle.

Right now, quite a few people are picking up the inverter from one place, and the panels elsewhere, but it seems like the spec is intended to group everything together. It will also prevent using more than one at the same time, which seems fair.

Hopefully more competitors getting involved will bring the price down, and mitigate the higher cost of not being able to pick and choose inverter, panels separately etc.

The batteries not being in-line, I'm thinking, shouldn't be a deal breaker since for most houses under typical generation figures won't be generating much above baseload. And of course you're still able to hardwire a battery elsewhere if you want one - which is probably what I'd do.

Seems like they aren't so worried about the RCBOs, or at least shifting the responsibility onto the homeowner.

You seem to have over complicated something really simple, and the price is hardly going to get much lower.

1.) Buy an Ecoflow Stream inverter for £99-129 (or one of their device with battery built in)
2.) Buy 2x Longhi 410W Solar Panels for £55-60 each and place them where sun will shine.
3.) Plug panels into inverter, and inverter to your mains socket.
4.) Profit.

 

[SkyTerran]

Good plan, but the prices have gone up since January.

The panels start around 90 quid a piece and the EcoFlow Stream micro-inverter starts at 129.

 

[Journey]

Good plan, but the prices have gone up since January.

The panels start around 90 quid a piece and the EcoFlow Stream micro-inverter starts at 129.

Do you read before you post? I literally link where you can them for that, you can also get the Ecostream for €99 if you want to get the EU version .

 

[Jim99]

You seem to have over complicated something really simple, and the price is hardly going to get much lower.

1.) Buy an Ecoflow Stream inverter for £99-129 (or one of their device with battery built in)
2.) Buy 2x Longhi 410W Solar Panels for £55-60 each and place them where sun will shine.
3.) Plug panels into inverter, and inverter to your mains socket.
4.) Profit.

I'm not overcomplicating anything, I'm discussing the proposed standard that @Mercenary Keyboard Warrior posted just before me

 

[Journey]

I'm not overcomplicating anything, I'm discussing the proposed standard that @Mercenary Keyboard Warrior posted just before me

Apologies that wasn't clean as you did't reference that in your reply.

The 41 page document doesn't say they will have to be sold in kits, just suggests a kit being bought, and that reads though like if company A wants to market is Plugin solar complaint they must follow those rules, but there is no onus on the buyer to do such a thing. It also opens up the whole what if you are buy spares, e.g. a failed inverter or panel.
There also the footnote in the document what states they may change it to allow one plug-in kit per circuit not dwelling.

So I think they want to make it easier/more expensive/safer all in one go, but realistically it seems to be more about controlling the sales/marketing rather than the fitment to an unsafe electrical system in a home.

 

[Jim99]

Apologies that wasn't clean as you did't reference that in your reply.

The 41 page document doesn't say they will have to be sold in kits, just suggests a kit being bought, and that reads though like if company A wants to market is Plugin solar complaint they must follow those rules, but there is no onus on the buyer to do such a thing. It also opens up the whole what if you are buy spares, e.g. a failed inverter or panel.
There also the footnote in the document what states they may change it to allow one plug-in kit per circuit not dwelling.

So I think they want to make it easier/more expensive/safer all in one go, but realistically it seems to be more about controlling the sales/marketing rather than the fitment to an unsafe electrical system in a home.

Yeah the repair point is an interesting one. I would hope we don't end up in a situation where it's implied that you're required to chuck a FCorp Inverter in the bin because you can't find an FCorp Solar Panel in a spares catalogue any more.

Coming back to a post I made earlier on in the thread, to my mind the question isn't so much "what can a homeowner buy", because that will always wind up being anything, even if it's dangerous junk - the question is "what will an insurance company be required to tolerate", because personally I wouldn't take the risk of my house burning down and the insurance company being able to wash their hands of it because technically my plug in solar solution didn't meet the legal specification.

That's why I'm so interested in the spec and how the consultation period (insanely brief, fwiw) goes.

I appreciate in that regard I'm probably a bit more risk averse than other people, but at this stage in my life I wouldn't want to be several hundred grand in the hole... not when the gains from a setup like this would be fairly marginal anyway, and I'd be more doing it for interest's sake than because it's a guaranteed money spinner.

 

[SkyTerran]

Do you read before you post? I literally link where you can them for that, you can also get the Ecostream for €99 if you want to get the EU version .

Yeah, mostly I do

How about you, can you read at all? The panels you linked have been out of stock for 6 months.

Please do share how can one get the EcoFlow Stream micro inverter in UK for 99 EUR or £99.

 

[Journey]

How about you, can you read at all? The panels you linked have been out of stock for 6 months.

435w - £61.15

Please do share how can one get the EcoFlow Stream micro inverter in UK for 99 EUR or £99.

Best you can do today is £120ish if you'd bought it yesterday you could get them for £101.18 inc delivery from a marketplace seller. eBay shop/seller via .de usually have them for €99, got one with €6 shipping not too long ago.

But look if you want me to do your shopping and find you bargains you'll have to pay me at least 10% of what you save as I'm a busy person - and you have access to the same data and search engines I do.

 

[SkyTerran]

435w - £61.15



Best you can do today is £120ish if you'd bought it yesterday you could get them for £101.18 inc delivery from a marketplace seller. eBay shop/seller via .de usually have them for €99, got one with €6 shipping not too long ago.

But look if you want me to do your shopping and find you bargains you'll have to pay me at least 10% of what you save as I'm a busy person - and you have access to the same data and search engines I do.

The type of person who can never say "I was wrong" and who becomes aggressive when called out.

QCELLS S-G3R+435-BLK 435W ALL BLACK MONO SOLAR PANEL N-TYPE
£61.15
Shipping
£144.00
Total
GBP
£205.15

 

[Journey]

The type of person who can never say "I was wrong" and who becomes aggressive when called out.

Where was I aggressive? I just said look for stuff yourself, as I'm not going to do it for you.

Also collection avialble from them at their warehouse in Sheffield - you likely live live 30-40 miles away

 

[Semple]

I don't see the option to select collection only.

It's actually a bit cheeky because their delivery page doesn't mention anything about the cost of delivering solar - only that they use their own vehicle. Not sure how reputable they are either, their shipping page goes on about Easter delivery timescales, not a good impression.