We have been over this before, in other threads, i won't be going around in circles.Lock people up who haven't committed a crime?
We have been over this before, in other threads, i won't be going around in circles.Lock people up who haven't committed a crime?
Well, maybe I haven't religiously read every one of your Pulitzer winning treatises on race, religion and crime. Humour me by repeating yourself, or link your previous posts.We have been over this before, in other threads, i won't be going around in circles.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4434914/French-Muslim-held-Paris-mayor-Anne-Hidalgo.html
French Muslim man has to be held back by security as he lunges at the mayor of Paris and accuses her of pandering to Islamic extremists in the wake of the terror attacks in the city
Mr Smahi labelled Ms Hidalgo - who has been mayor since 2014 - and other politicians as 'criminals' for pandering to Muslims and cosying up to countries that impose Sharia Law.
He added: They come here showing off, on the blood of a policeman who had his life taken, leaving a wife and a child.
'I accuse the governments, they are all responsible for all of these Muslims - and I'm a Muslim - who get their wives turbaned and then stare at our wives.
'These governments, these presidents who shake the hands of the Saudis, even though their women aren't allowed to drive.
'But now they can say, "I was at the Elysee". I'm ashamed, I'm ashamed.'
Makes sense in the general sense, they are what they are, but (as I'm sure you're aware) there are also times when it doesn't make sense to use that term, in its collective group sense, when discussing the actions of only a fraction of that group - which is why people use the term 'radical islam'.Yes muslims collectively.
Yes, I understand what you are saying and i know that.Makes sense in the general sense, they are what they are, but (as I'm sure you're aware) there are also times when it doesn't make sense to use that term, in its collective group sense, when discussing the actions of only a fraction of that group - which is why people use the term 'radical islam'.
Wow, what a bigotnazixenlamophobe!http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4434914/French-Muslim-held-Paris-mayor-Anne-Hidalgo.html
French Muslim man has to be held back by security as he lunges at the mayor of Paris and accuses her of pandering to Islamic extremists in the wake of the terror attacks in the city
Mr Smahi labelled Ms Hidalgo - who has been mayor since 2014 - and other politicians as 'criminals' for pandering to Muslims and cosying up to countries that impose Sharia Law.
He added: They come here showing off, on the blood of a policeman who had his life taken, leaving a wife and a child.
'I accuse the governments, they are all responsible for all of these Muslims - and I'm a Muslim - who get their wives turbaned and then stare at our wives.
'These governments, these presidents who shake the hands of the Saudis, even though their women aren't allowed to drive.
'But now they can say, "I was at the Elysee". I'm ashamed, I'm ashamed.'
Wow, what a bigotnazixenlamophobe!
As mentioned above we need more people like him. Well done to him.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4434914/French-Muslim-held-Paris-mayor-Anne-Hidalgo.html
French Muslim man has to be held back by security as he lunges at the mayor of Paris and accuses her of pandering to Islamic extremists in the wake of the terror attacks in the city
Mr Smahi labelled Ms Hidalgo - who has been mayor since 2014 - and other politicians as 'criminals' for pandering to Muslims and cosying up to countries that impose Sharia Law.
He added: They come here showing off, on the blood of a policeman who had his life taken, leaving a wife and a child.
'I accuse the governments, they are all responsible for all of these Muslims - and I'm a Muslim - who get their wives turbaned and then stare at our wives.
'These governments, these presidents who shake the hands of the Saudis, even though their women aren't allowed to drive.
'But now they can say, "I was at the Elysee". I'm ashamed, I'm ashamed.'
The issue with your solution there amp is that's what our culture tries anyway. We are an open and inclusive people. Isolation is self imposed by many of these communities and groups. In some aspects their beliefs and culture just aren't compatible with ours which furthers this. In Newcastle near me for example there is one area of the city where Asian families will live, irrespective of their wealth. Every house on every street is occupied by a Bangladeshi or Pakistani family and it's through choice. You won't find these families equally distributed throughout the suburbs.
You don't tend to see this amongst other cultures or nationalities. We have a reasonable French population nearby and they're spread all over the place for example.
Saying that Gateshead is renowned for its very sizeable Jewish population and they're the same. Live in one area almost exclusively.
Another chief of the deflect and defend camp. So many on this forum.
Yes we lock them up. ******** to the cost, at least people are safer with them off the streets or sent back to country of origin.
Honestly I don't really see that as such a massive issue as others do. It's not exactly unexpected for people of similar cultures and mindsets to end up living in select communities. It's no different to the British "enclaves" in places like Spain, where people live amongst other Brits, pop to the local store to buy the Sun and down to the British run "pub" for their Sunday roast and pint of British beer. No different to the British/western expat communities in places like the Middle East and south east Asia where they will generally congregate together.
While it's not ideal it's not exactly a hard reason to work out why people do it, especially first generation/new arrivals from very different cultures.
As you say we are generally an open and inclusive people, but that doesn't solve every problem, there will always be bad people. The point we need to remember is they are the minority and we should not be acting against the majority because of the minority (not this is the same premise I'm using regarding bulk data collection and targeted data collection).
Electing someone like Le Pen however is just going to increase divisiveness and create an aura of worry that is just going to separate communities from the rest of society.
How about actually debating the points I'm making rather than playing buzzword bingo.
Why do you think we should backtrack on 1000 years of British history and law to deal with a small number of people?
I can only assume you don't actually have any legitimate argument, hence the reason you wrote what you did.
And you wonder why I suggested you may get along with a group of people that did pretty much exactly what you are advocating. Ignoring the rule of law and the judicial system and just "disappearing" and throwing out people on an arbitrary basis, because you "believe" they are bad.
If you can't see why this is such a bad idea then I'll repeat what I said before - either have a read and try and understand what you're actually saying in the congress of British history and the current system, or please leave the UK for some wherelike Saudi Arabia or Russia that are far more amenable to what you are suggesting. I don't think many people in the UK would like your suggestions for turning 1000 years of British law and order on its head.
No different to the British/western expat communities in places like the Middle East and south east Asia where they will generally congregate together.
Honestly I don't really see that as such a massive issue as others do. It's not exactly unexpected for people of similar cultures and mindsets to end up living in select communities. It's no different to the British "enclaves" in places like Spain, where people live amongst other Brits, pop to the local store to buy the Sun and down to the British run "pub" for their Sunday roast and pint of British beer. No different to the British/western expat communities in places like the Middle East and south east Asia where they will generally congregate together.
While it's not ideal it's not exactly a hard reason to work out why people do it, especially first generation/new arrivals from very different cultures.
As you say we are generally an open and inclusive people, but that doesn't solve every problem, there will always be bad people. The point we need to remember is they are the minority and we should not be acting against the majority because of the minority (not this is the same premise I'm using regarding bulk data collection and targeted data collection).
Electing someone like Le Pen however is just going to increase divisiveness and create an aura of worry that is just going to separate communities from the rest of society.
I have not said anything of the sort, i said desperate measures for desperate times\events, simple, politicians can change the law or add to it, if you are a danger to the country you reside in then you are locked up or sent back to where you came from, this would be written in law by the people who are in charge, not done in secret, all open and free to scrutinize who and why we are kicking out or locking up, it does not have to be a permanent solution, it can be temporary until we have a grasp of what is going on and that the danger becomes less frequent.
I heard on the BBC the other day that France has at least 15000 people on a terror list, you are on that for a reason, so out you go or you are locked up until the security forces have got this under control, because at the moment, it is not under control, especially in Europe.
If Marine Le Pen wins in France she is going to do exactly what i have said above, are you saying the millions that vote for her are idiots and wrong?
I would like to see a public vote on it, because i think you are wrong and a very large number of people would support measures to be put in place if they were given the chance to vote on it.
Let the mods put a vote on this forum, simple question, should we kick out\lock up anyone on an Islamic Terror Watch List, answers are yes or no.
Lets see which way this forum would vote or are you going to accuse us all and the millions of Marine Le Pen supporters as being followers of Hitlers brown shirts like you tried to accuse me of being a few pages back.
that is rather different - they're expats rather than immigrants for a start, secondly it is more the Middle East than South East Asia tbh.. where that happens - if you go to Singapore or Hong Kong for example you're not necessarily going to be living in an expat enclave. On the other hand if you go to Saudi then they quite deliberately want to keep westerners segregated in compounds and in Dubai you'll outnumber the locals.
It's not just confined to first/second generation immigrants though. Keep in mind as well these generally aren't expats - they're immigrants. People who have chosen to come here. If I was to head elsewhere in the world then I certainly wouldn't do it to mirror the UK. The whole point in moving would be to embrace a new culture or lifestyle.
I'm also not defending any Brit that does the same.
I used to frequently go round to the house of a friend of mine as a child. He lived there with his parents and grandparents. Grandparents were both 1st gen, both parents 2nd gen. Neither grandparent (both his dad's dad and dad's mum) spoke a word of English. The pair of them had been in the UK for 30 years. His mum didn't speak a word of English. Only his dad. All conversations in the house were in Urdu. How do you manage to live somewhere for 30 years and not pick up even a sniff of the language without deliberate and intentional isolation?
Heck, even the moronic Brits in Spain at least pick up Cerveza and Por Favor!
It is these communities which foster views and cultures very different from our own and it's no wonder that some of them become enclaves of behaviour which is not tolerated here (or tbh in the countries that these people descend from!). Take the crap in Oldham and Rotherham as examples.
A lot/most of expats are permanent immigrants. And why is it different? People have moved to a place with a largely different culture and as such are more comfortable living with similar people. If it's the term expat you have a problem with then I'll just call them immigrants, which they are. I'm an expat, and an immigrant for example. I'm a British expat, but a Canadian immigrant. Someone moving permanently to the UK from India is an Indian expat, but a British immigrant. There's no difference.
Dame Louise Casey said that there is a "first generation in every generation" phenomenon in Muslim communities which is acting as a "bar" to integration.
The review also accuses Labour and local authorities of having "ignored or even condoned" harmful cultural traditions for fear of being branded "racist or Islamaphobic".
It reports concerns that Sharia Courts in the UK have been "supporting the values of extremists, condoning wife-beating [and] ignoring marital rape".
[...]
The review found one northern town where every councillor of Asian ethnicity had married a wife from Pakistan, while a study by Bristol University found that half of British Pakistanis married back in Pakistan.
the terminology wasn't very relevant but the meaning, I simply chose to use those words to emphasise the difference however it is the difference that was important - Westerners in the Middle East being both temporary and in cases such as Saudi encouraged to live separately in compounds. You also mentioned south east Asia however in that case I'm not sure your premise is correct to begin with - people who emigrate to say Singapore or Hong Kong won't necessarily isolate themselves form local culture for example.
what you're trying to do though with this argument is present a false equivalence - there are legitimate issues re: the isolation of some parts of the muslim community distinct from that of other ethnic groups
While it's not ideal it's not exactly a hard reason to work out why people do it, especially first generation/new arrivals from very different cultures.
As you say we are generally an open and inclusive people, but that doesn't solve every problem, there will always be bad people. The point we need to remember is they are the minority and we should not be acting against the majority because of the minority (not this is the same premise I'm using regarding bulk data collection and targeted data collection).
Electing someone like Le Pen however is just going to increase divisiveness and create an aura of worry that is just going to separate communities from the rest of society.
Again you're picking specific countries on the more extreme ends to try and prove a point that's not particularly relevant to the discussion (i.e. Saudi).
Women in general are out of the house less, and that's in UK "culture", let alone more conservative cultures.