Police raid house because of electric heater.

rypt said:
Not so different ..

Army is to impose your (government) will onto other countries and people
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In the sense of imposing the will to invade or defend in times of war, just about, yeah.

rypt said:
Police is to impose your (government) will onto the people in your country
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Not really, no. Most of the law that the police are involved in is there to protect people from each other where necessary, and to maintain a peaceful society.

But given that your anarchist streak is showing, your suspicion of the government and their laws is not entirely surprising.
 
vonhelmet said:
In the sense of imposing the will to invade or defend in times of war, just about, yeah.
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In the sense of Iraq, Afghanistan, etc ...
In the sense of "if you don't do as we say we will invade/bomb you"

Not really, no. Most of the law that the police are involved in is there to protect people from each other where necessary, and to maintain a peaceful society.
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And if that was the case I would fully support the police and those laws, but you and I both know that is not the case.
Having cannabis be illegal, having a speedlimit at 30/50/60/70/etc mph, and MANY, MANY other laws do not protect anyone, especially for all the victimless crimes (such as speeding)

But given that your anarchist streak is showing, your suspicion of the government and their laws is not entirely surprising.
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I'm not an anarchist, I am anti-big government with needless laws and regulations that try to interfere in every aspect of your life.
 
rypt said:
In the sense of Iraq, Afghanistan, etc ...
In the sense of "if you don't do as we say we will invade/bomb you"
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The specific will of the government has little bearing on the purpose of the armed forces.

rypt said:
And if that was the case I would fully support the police and those laws, but you and I both know that is not the case.
Having cannabis be illegal, having a speedlimit at 30/50/60/70/etc mph, and MANY, MANY other laws do not protect anyone, especially for all the victimless crimes (such as speeding)
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Things don't require a victim to be a crime. We have laws to minimise the risk of victims arising.

rypt said:
I'm not an anarchist, I am anti-big government with needless laws and regulations that try to interfere in every aspect of your life.
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Ironically, we probably have more in common than my line of argument would suggest.
 
vonhelmet said:
The specific will of the government has little bearing on the purpose of the armed forces.
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Yes and no, historically the armed forces would not be permanent and would come from the nation wanting to defend itself when attacked.

Permanent armies are different though, they became a tool of the government to be used, which is ironically exactly how the police are now used by having to enforce laws that are not needed but are simply there due to the politicians.


Things don't require a victim to be a crime. We have laws to minimise the risk of victims arising.
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They most certainly do in my eyes, if no-one is hurt then why is it a crime?
 
This is happening in parts of canada in the "war on drugs" they are kicking doors down raiding houses and shooting pets, to stop that deadly cannabis grow farms.

If someone kicks down my door i might shoot them in the head, then ill get shot and arrested for murder and resisting arrest and whatever else the criminal police can put together.

Life ruin because the police have got nothing better to do than raid houses of innocent people, reminds me of the Gestapo. Any excuse to spend some of that prohibition budget, if only they put that much effort in to solving actual crime.

They just get a kick out of bashing down the door and doing all the hand signals etc, they think they are in a movie. poor lads.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestapo
 
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groen said:
This is happening in parts of canada in the "war on drugs" they are kicking doors down raiding houses and shooting pets, to stop that deadly cannabis grow farms.

If someone kicks down my door i might shoot them in the head, then ill get shot and arrested for murder and resisting arrest and whatever else the criminal police can put together.

Life ruin because the police have got nothing better to do than raid houses of innocent people, reminds me of the Gestapo. Any excuse to spend some of that prohibition budget, if only they put that much effort in to solving actual crime.

They just get a kick out of bashing down the door and doing all the hand signals etc, they think they are in a movie. poor lads.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestapo
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You lose.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
 
Scanning every ones home with a infrared camera from a helicopter that costs £1000s a trip just to catch some people growing a god damn plant is like nazi behaviour.

You can make a joke out of it thanks to mike godwin whoever that is, but in reality the police are the criminals in this situation.

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2011/01/alexander_landau_got_pulled_ov.php

This is the type of thing we can look forward to in the uk.

http://stopthedrugwar.org/speakeasy/2010/jun/21/police_kill_grandmothers_dog_bot

http://reason.com/blog/2010/08/04/another-cop-kills-dog-drug-rai

I can go on and on, countless example of the drug war excuse being used to TERRORISE innocent people.
 
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Erm Groen, it doesn't cost £1000 per house and they don't normally just go up for that (the helicopters are used for all sorts of things and it costs almost as much to have them sat idle), and a single trip with the helicopter can check many thousands of properties including remote ones quickly and efficiently, and unobtrusively - much more so than almost any other method the police have.

The copters are the normal force ones which are equipped with IR to assist in the main roles, so having the IR camera turned on at night whilst they are up and about costs exactly zero, and making a note of unusual heat signatures whilst doing other things only takes the co pilot or camera operator a few seconds, that information can then be checked against things like local intel (is there a rumour of a "farm" in the area).

The police have a legal duty and obligation to go after criminals, given that drug users and dealers tend to be criminals in ways not directly related to the "mere" use of the drugs I'm happy the police go after them in any way possible, especially when they can go after the supply side of things cheaply and normally with a great degree of efficiency.

Drug dealers are almost invariably scum who are in my mind right up there with paedophiles and rapists for the harm they cause others, and the affects they have on normal people (iirc a huge percentage of theft/burglary is done by people who are on drugs, often to pay for their habits).
 
Werewolf said:
The police have a legal duty and obligation to go after criminals, given that drug users and dealers tend to be criminals in ways not directly related to the "mere" use of the drugs I'm happy the police go after them in any way possible, especially when they can go after the supply side of things cheaply and normally with a great degree of efficiency.

Drug dealers are almost invariably scum who are in my mind right up there with paedophiles and rapists for the harm they cause others, and the affects they have on normal people (iirc a huge percentage of theft/burglary is done by people who are on drugs, often to pay for their habits).
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Cannabis is not addictive, so it is not a "habbit".

Equally, why should police go after a drug that does no harm?
 
A friend of mine is a cop and he has told me stories of drug raids where the owner or renter of the house has boobytrapped the doors and windows with anything from electricity to hanging knives from the roof that fall - scary stuff!
 
groen said:
Scanning every ones home with a infrared camera from a helicopter that costs £1000s a trip just to catch some people growing a god damn plant is like nazi behaviour.

You can make a joke out of it thanks to mike godwin whoever that is, but in reality the police are the criminals in this situation.

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2011/01/alexander_landau_got_pulled_ov.php

This is the type of thing we can look forward to in the uk.

http://stopthedrugwar.org/speakeasy/2010/jun/21/police_kill_grandmothers_dog_bot

http://reason.com/blog/2010/08/04/another-cop-kills-dog-drug-rai

I can go on and on, countless example of the drug war excuse being used to TERRORISE innocent people.
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I wasn't making a joke. Comparing the Police to the Gestapo is insulting to Holocaust victims.
 
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