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Poll: Did Northern Ireland and the hard border with Ireland enter your head when you voted leave?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by easyrider, Mar 23, 2019.

  1. Vexr

    Hitman

    Joined: Oct 15, 2018

    Posts: 807

    I took no active role in that debate, instead I watched you dash yourself on the rocks of evidence and social reasonableness again and again. Your disgusting performance made for an interesting character study. I concluded those stating they'd ignored you en masse were quite reasonable to do so. So again, don't think I'll be taking your advice and guidance about anything anytime soon.
     
  2. easyrider

    Caporegime

    Joined: Dec 24, 2005

    Posts: 38,403

    Location: Autonomy

    I stated fact. Its hard for some people to accept hard data thats clearly available online. So of course bury your head in the sand. Good luck.

    What a bizarre post...
     
  3. Evangelion

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 21,901

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    Now you're getting it.
     
  4. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 39,036

    You’ve got a bit muddled here, we’re in a CTA with Ireland already, the hard border issue the UK and the EU are concerned about concerns customs checks/goods.

    Remember the EU’s proposed solution was customs checks across the Irish Sea, NI remains aligned to EU regulations. The UK wants to go for some sort of max-fac/tech solution. In the event that we stay in the customs union it is no longer a big issue.

    Your post however is about immigration?

    That isn’t the stumbling block with regards to the border. It is hardly unique to the CTA either I mean for example a Ukrainian might have permission to live/work in Poland, they can still drive to Germany or other Schengen countries. Likewise a non-EU immigrant in Ireland with a work visa for that country doesn’t necessarily have permission to work or live in the UK or vice versa. EU immigrants at the moment already have criteria to adhere to.
     
  5. thenewoc

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2012

    Posts: 4,451

    Location: West Sussex, England

    That's what a border in the Irish sea is for. That's where it'll have to go if NI & RoI don't want a hard land border. You could end up with illegal immigration into NI but only if their willing to sleep rough as you wouldn't pay them benefits, employ them etc unless they entered on a visa.
     
  6. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 39,036

    No it isn’t, where is this proposal for the dismantling of the CTA and routine passport/immigration checks across the Irish Sea?

    Both Ireland and the UK have committed to keeping the CTA.
     
  7. The Running Man

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 33,202

    Location: block 16, cell 12

    Dont let terrorists win.
     
  8. singularity

    Hitman

    Joined: Apr 2, 2007

    Posts: 917

    I never considered the Irish border to be an issue and still don't, it's being used as a political football by all sides.

    Where there's a will there's a way.
     
  9. Evangelion

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 21,901

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    What 'way' would you suggest that achieves Brexit without breaking the Good Friday Agreement?
     
  10. Uther

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 16, 2005

    Posts: 9,145

    Yes. It was my main thought. As I want a united Ireland anything that separates NI from the rest of the UK is good for me.
    If Scotland can leave too even better.
     
  11. Terminal_Boy

    Soldato

    Joined: Apr 13, 2013

    Posts: 6,390

    Location: La France

    No.
     
  12. Royal Fleet

    Hitman

    Joined: Nov 21, 2007

    Posts: 799

    Location: Fleet, Hampshire

    On the question earlier about whether the NI would vote to be part of a united Ireland. If I recall correctly (although it has never been asked) if the vote was broadly along sectarian lines which it would be expected to be the majority would vote to remain with the UK. However that majority is being eroded over time as the birth rate amongst Catholics is greater than Protestants. Whether the Brexit impact would mean that the perceived wisdom that the vote would be on sectarian lines would not hold is an interesting question.

    To the original question to the thread. Yes it was just one more reason why I voted Remain. The Leave campaign was full of those people like that person earlier in the thread who said 'where there is a will there is a way'. A lazy answer to an argument that shows the folly of the whole Leave movement.
     
  13. Sleepery

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 4, 2003

    Posts: 9,844

    Location: Fraggle Rock

    There's the quintessential problem with Britain's current attitude to NI, right there. Under the Belfast Agreement, NI citizens can choose to be British or Irish Citizens, or both.

    https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/about-northern-ireland
     
  14. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 18,691

    Don’t care and never will, it’s a provincial colony with little of note.

    It’s people are a different matter, I bear no ill will to them, but the country itself is just irrelevant. This is ultimately shared by the vast majority of the mainland, so it’s hardly just an edgy comment.

    It’s the lack of a British spine that has meant the NI was even an issue to begin with.
     
  15. The Running Man

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 33,202

    Location: block 16, cell 12

    So is Gibraltar to an extent. Ajd the Falklands.

    Time to pack in colonialism ?
     
  16. billysielu

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 9, 2009

    Posts: 11,142

    Location: Oxfordshire

    Yes - but whether there's a hard border or not doesn't affect me. I went as far as reading about efforts to re-unite Ireland and finding out it couldn't happen unless the people of Northern Ireland supported it.

    Also the Government wasn't dependent on the DUP at the time, which IMO is why so much effort has gone into this particular issue - to try and topple the Government and overturn the result.
     
  17. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 18,691

    No, both of those have significant strategic value, it’s not even comparable.
     
  18. singularity

    Hitman

    Joined: Apr 2, 2007

    Posts: 917

    isn't that what we pay our politicians to sort out.
     
  19. Btone

    Hitman

    Joined: Jan 23, 2003

    Posts: 897

    Location: N.I.

    I remember this being talk about on the Local radio, and the DuP was saying the the Border wouln't be a issue because the RoI need the UK so much that they would simply fall into line with what ever the UK does, we joined the EU they joined the EU, we leave the EU, They leave the EU. and listening to some of the DuP and English MP's it been a bit of a shock to them that little old Ireland has had the balls to stand up to the UK and not simple do as it was told. I've often wonder to myself is it the backstop that the problem, or is it that the backstop is with Ireland that is the problem

    as for a Border poll in NI, if it was held in the next few years i think most people (myself included) would still vote to remain in the UK. also anyone who thinks this would be a answer to the Brexit, Lea Varadak when asked said that if a Broder poll was won , you looking at 10-15 years too sort out the negotiation, and 50+ years to bring all the people along so not to have a rise in loyalist paramilitaries (uvf,uff,red hand were the main ones)

    as for the border being in the Irish sea, it all ready is. passport control is in the Irish sea, it may not be strictly enforced atm but it still there, there are checks on agricultural good ( over 50% of N.I exports) going to the UK so what a few more checks. A unicorn Brexit would have only worked with a Irish sea Border, allowing GB to form Trade deals with the rest of the world, but still giving them a backdoor to the EU (and the EU and backdoor to the UK)
     
  20. Harlequin

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 17, 2004

    Posts: 2,930

    Location: Eastbourne , East Sussex.

    Why not , I dunno, ask the people of NI what they want; some sort of referendum, like the border poll....


    ofc, like Brexit any result wont be acceptable, even if the turnout was 100%, with 100% of them saying `I want to (insert choice)` , being that the irish question is so intrinsically linked to identity