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Poll: Did Northern Ireland and the hard border with Ireland enter your head when you voted leave?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by easyrider, Mar 23, 2019.

  1. Domi

    Hitman

    Joined: Sep 6, 2008

    Posts: 736

    The NI border was and still is a part of "project fear"

    Of course this was heavily discussed before the vote but it was dismissed as a non issue by the likes of Boris Johnson and some people clearly still believe this to be the case.

    A note on how seriously some took this John Major and Tony Blair stood together, former prime ministers from opposing parties and made joint statements about exactly what would happen.

    There message was completely dismissed by the major brexiteers as part of Project Fear because once again why would anybody listen to experts on the subject.

    This was and is a very complicated subject and is once again evidence that a simple yes/no vote on should we do this should never have been allowed to happen.
     
  2. Evangelion

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 21,901

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    Yes, but I'm still curious to know if you have any ideas. You seem pretty confident that it can be solved. Why is that?
     
  3. wesimmo

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Mar 19, 2012

    Posts: 2,084

    This is another problem with Leave supporters.

    Even if politicians weren't largely incompetent, they're being asked the impossible.

    It's like when my 3 year old wanted a unicorn for her birthday and I got the blame when one didn't turn up.
     
  4. Raymond Lin

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: Oct 20, 2002

    Posts: 62,938

    Location: Wish i was in New York

    We can always pull a page out of Putin and do a Crimea...
     
  5. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005

    Posts: 30,780

    Location: Co Durham

    Yes but I ended up voting remain and that was one of the reasons as nobody was putting forward any solutions on how to stop a hard border in NI and it was just flicked away by most leave campaigners as irrelevant.
     
  6. efish

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 11, 2014

    Posts: 1,073

    Scottish/ Irish. Got relatives on the Southern half of the border. One is crossing it every five minutes or so at the moment on the construction job he is doing. They are all deeply worried as they are well aware of the potential for a return to strife and conflict within the community.

    Aside from just the hassle and disruption a border would cause to both daily life and wider economy which is considerable.
     
  7. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 29,965



    staying in the Sm and CU will achieve this.
     
  8. stockhausen

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2006

    Posts: 9,362

    As it happens, yes, in my case it did. I couldn't for the life of me see how our departure from the EU could work if the UK had a non-existent border with the EU - read Puckoon by Spike Milligan - it is a great (topical) work of political philosophy.

    I have thought for many years that the island of Ireland should be reunited.
    Then again, I am not a huge fan of Scottish or Welsh independence unless the UK reverts to Elizabethan era "County" states ;)
     
  9. BowdonUK

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 2,144

    Truthfully no it didn't.

    I have a genuine question though. I can understand the land border being an issue for actual people crossing it. But when it comes to goods, why is the Irish land border different from the sea border between the rest of the UK and the EU?
     
  10. Royal Fleet

    Hitman

    Joined: Nov 21, 2007

    Posts: 799

    Location: Fleet, Hampshire

    At present there are no customs checks between UK and any other EU state. There are border security checks (passports etc) though between UK and other EU states other than Ireland. Ireland is in the same situation now as they have to show passports etc when travelling from Ireland to another EU country.

    When we leave to add customs checks to an existing security check will be painful and will slow the thing down but at least there is a stop there already. The issue with Ireland is that you will still not have a security check but will need some form of customs check. Therefore the need for a ‘hard’ border.
     
  11. efish

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 11, 2014

    Posts: 1,073



    " I'm very glad to see it go, the greatest thing thats happened in 25 years...peace"


    " My reaction is, I am just happy to see it go and happy for peace, thank God for peace and for everybody. I hope to never see it again and I hope.. for my grandchildren.. or anybody... ever (never) see's trouble again"
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
  12. Thekwango

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 5, 2009

    Posts: 10,667

    Location: Northern Ireland

    i'd pay good money to see you to pop into a bar on the Falls road and tell that one :p
    so they've humped the whole way across the middle east and europe to make it to Calais or wherever but making the short journey to Dublin then on into NI is going to be too much of a 'PITA'?? drugs are bad mmmmkay :p
     
  13. Btone

    Hitman

    Joined: Jan 23, 2003

    Posts: 897

    Location: N.I.

    if we set aside the whole political thing about the border.
    Take a few minutes on google map, zooming and just follow the border then tell me that it possible to make a physical hard border, it runs thu houses, fields,sheds, you can drive along a road and cross the border 6-7 times, at one point we had over 30,000 toops deployed here, and they still couldn't seal the border. The only way to get effective border control on Ireland (both north and south) is to put it in the ports EU goods/people would go thu the N.I ports to the mainland and UK goods/people thu the southern ports
     
  14. Mr Badger

    Soldato

    Joined: Dec 27, 2009

    Posts: 6,122

    (replying to OP)

    I voted remain and yes I absolutely was aware of the NI border issue. Back before the referendum I brought it up numerous times with people who said they were going to vote Leave for it to be routinely dismissed as being nonsense/Project Fear/easy to solve.
     
  15. ttaskmaster

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Sep 11, 2013

    Posts: 8,175

    Location: Reading, UK

    Ok, so we build this wall, right..... :D
     
  16. Eurofighter

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Mar 20, 2014

    Posts: 1,263

    I never heard it mentioned once.
     
  17. nkata

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 6,922

    Location: Cheshire / Staffordshire

    The main reason for a hard border on the island of Ireland would be for the benefit of Eire, not the UK who would not really need one. There has always been a common travel/work area between mainland UK, NI and Eire since when the whole of Ireland was once part of GB. So well before the Common Market era. Also Eire AFAIK is not in Schengan scheme so border checks would be in place at Dublin, particularly for non europeans. The risk of large scale illegal immigration to the UK via Eire is tiny and those managing to do it would not have legal rights in the UK in any instance.

    It has also been stated that if there was no hard border and the UK was out of the EU it would be the Eire economy that would collapse not UK/NI hence all the talk about supporting our Irish partner from the EU side. In the event of a No Deal, It is highly unlikely that the UK would initiate a border, more likely to be the EU in my opinion.

    Finally, yes I was aware of the possibilities that may arise regarding a border but did think that an intelligent solution would be adopted, in fact still think that.
     
  18. Btone

    Hitman

    Joined: Jan 23, 2003

    Posts: 897

    Location: N.I.

    The CTA is for VISTA free travel, NOT passport free, which means you still need to show some form of approved photo ID on request. just because we don't enforces this all that well at the moment doesn't mean it won't change. any border checks that would be in Dublin would only be to check that those entering the RoI are legal to enter the RoI, NOT the UK, for instance if you travel on a south African passport you don't need a vista to enter RoI but you do need one to enter the UK, so you will need some form of passport control in N.I.

    and just because RoI isn't in Schengan (yet) doesn't mean people from the EU can't/don't travel to the RoI and again with out some sort of UK passport control in N.I there nothing stopping them moving on to the UK, you say the risk of large scale illegal immigration is tiny, and i agree with you, But it the small scale i'm worried about, what happens when some French born Radicalised terrorised, who would be on a UK watch list and stopped if he flew to London, flies to dublin and enters RoI totally legal no one going to stop him. at this point the best the UK knows is he in the RoI, he can drive north. hop on a ferry and next think we know we reading about some mass killing, because we have no border control.

    and yes the RoI economy will be hit, but they will have 27 other country with over 500 million people to fall back on as they still be in the EU, We have no one but out self's and we be taking a lot more dmg that RoI will
     
  19. efish

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 11, 2014

    Posts: 1,073

    You are concerned about the way France Britain and Ireland will handle and share intelligence data. The answer is therefore a border with all the political issues that come with it.

    I don't get it, the answer here would be to continue to share intelligence data effectively would it not?

    Its also clear that the terror threat is more likely to be an internal issue and related to the construction of hard border than any external threat.

    The only other example I can think of here are Trumps claims that Islamic terrorists use the Mexican border to stream into the U.S.A.

    But this is just the politics of fear and the dog whistle.
     
  20. Slam62

    Soldato

    Joined: Jan 3, 2006

    Posts: 7,193

    Location: Monaco

    Simple answer, no