Indeed so why take such a big gamble with UK citizens leaving overseas... this is pretty basic - unilaterally agreeing to some rights for EU citizens without the EU doing the same in return would just turn UK citizens into bargaining chips. The UK offered to negotiate on the issue of UK/EU citizens already but the EU turned them down!
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Indeed so why take such a big gamble with UK citizens leaving overseas... this is pretty basic - unilaterally agreeing to some rights for EU citizens without the EU doing the same in return would just turn UK citizens into bargaining chips. The UK offered to negotiate on the issue of UK/EU citizens already but the EU turned them down!
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Sigh we have been through that before. We handnt filed A50 then so you cant negotiate something before you hand your notice in. What would have happened if we then didnt file A50? Or not filed it for years?
Sigh we have been through that before. We handnt filed A50 then so you cant negotiate something before you hand your notice in. What would have happened if we then didnt file A50? Or not filed it for years?
One is a position we have control of, the other isn't. I'd prefer to take the more reasonable approach with the lives of my friends and family personally. That's something I can at least try to impact. Using 'but they turned us down' to me just smacks of sinking to their level rather than holding true to your principle (assuming of course said principle is not using people's lives as bargaining chips).
Regardless, I cannot support treating my friends as a bargaining tool, as simple as that. I'd prefer not to treat fellow countrymen like that either but that's not something I can impact unfortunately.
Article 50 doesn't prevent it any more than a unilateral move by the UK.
Neither can I thus I'm glad the UK didn't give something away unilaterally and then leave UK citizens overseas to be used as bargaining chips by the EU. As I said before it was the UK who were prepared to negotiate on this matter and were turned down by the EU.
Press statement from the Bow group, a centre right Conservative thinktank. They are not happy...
'' If enacted, it is likely to represent the biggest stealth tax in history and when people understand that they will be leaving most of their estate to the government, rather than their families, the Conservative Party will experience a dramatic loss of support."
https://www.bowgroup.org/news/bow-group-press-release-elderly-care-biggest-stealth-tax-history
'' If enacted, it is likely to represent the biggest stealth tax in history and when people understand that they will be leaving most of their estate to the government, rather than their families, the Conservative Party will experience a dramatic loss of support."
https://www.bowgroup.org/news/bow-group-press-release-elderly-care-biggest-stealth-tax-history
Well it is a fair bit of an exaggeration to say people will be leaving most of their estate to the government - for the vast majority of people that won't happen - but it wasn't exactly surprising to see some conservatives upset at the policy... like I said before it could easily be a labour policy. What was funny previously was watching various people on here seemingly criticise it purely because it was a Tory policy and even coming out with right wing style objections to it!
Swings and roundabouts, I see more directly the impact of friends who now cannot plan their future and are staring in the face of being put at a disadvantage living here with employment and healthcare penalties, after happily integrating and contributing fir the last 15 years.
I find it a frankly abhorrent position and can't bring myself to support it. If I could impact on the security of expats then I would do but I'm not afforded that opportunity. I am afforded the opportunity to gain a little bit of security for my friends though and I will be taking it.
Well the UK tried to and the EU turned them down - they've also got an obligation towards UK citizens. Anger at the UK over their situation is pretty misplaced.
Companies pay corporation tax so ditch employer NI and raise corporation tax to compensate.
Just a comment on rail. The UK could not afford re-nationalisation of the railways. Nationalisation would lead to higher fares to pay for public pensions which are more costly to the economy than private pensions. Unions would be stronger and more militant so strikes would be more common. It's a nice idea that nationalisation would result in a better rail service but in reality it just wouldn't and be even more burdensome on the UK budget.
Our network is much older than that of Europe. Ours wasn't pretty much obliterated during world war 2. Europe's rail network is far more efficient than ours because it's really only half the age of ours. The cost to start again for the UK would be too expensive.
I'm not angry, just choosing to support the position that won't use them as a bargaining tool and proposes to try and penalise them for living here. The original point was that it's nothing to do with stupidity, people might actually just care about their friends more than the politics and just because they can't make an impact on both sides of the scenario, doesn't immediately make people stupid.
^ This.
£103 billion in 2010, now £14 billion.
I dunno about anyone else, but I'd find it hard to pay down my debts as well if my outgoings were more than my wages.
individuals might but the UK government would be stupid to unilaterally make that move for the reasons already mentioned... the bargaining chip argument works the other way too
That crossed my mind, but profitability doesn't always track with employee numbers. That being said, it might make sense to roll an employment related levy into the ctsa system in terms of admin and collection for simplicity's sake.
You were talking about people not having a clue, not governments. Some people just have different priorities, it doesn't mean they're clueless.
yes I was - in reference to negotiations and the criticism of the UK government's stance
Do you believe my stance on it makes me clueless then?
Edit for clarity I'm not going to cry about personal attacks and hit the RTM button if you say yes
I wasn't talking about the Railways. I am ambivalent about ownership of the railways. I was specifically talking about the Royal Mail. As it is no longer a strategic service what is the point of it being nationalised?
Why would rail employees suddenly get better pension rights just because they were transferred to a state owned company a vast number probably still get state type final salary terms anyway as they won't have lost them after privatisation, the government will have to tackle state pensions at some point so why not start with the rail workers. The unions are hardly not militant at the moment ask anyone who uses southern! A properly run state owned railway should be at least as good as our current subsidised mess and we wouldn't be paying millions of pounds of taxpayers money straight to private companies and individuals.
If people are so in favour of privatisation why is there no appetite to do it properly and sell the tracks as well and let these 'profit' making companies stand on their own two feet?
Do you believe my stance on it makes me clueless then?
Edit for clarity I'm not going to cry about personal attacks and hit the RTM button if you say yes
you're talking about your personal issue with your friends - I'm talking about people criticising the UK's approach to negotiation - in terms of negotiation it would be stupid to give away concessions unilaterally
if you're criticising based on a selfish/emotive perspective i.e. you're only interested in your personal friends and don't give a stuff about the wider impact on UK citizens overseas and are up front about that then no I'd not say that is clueless. In that instance you appreciate why the UK has acted as it has but don't care as you place more importance on your friends for personal reasons rather than the wider picture the government has to consider.
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