Porsche Owners Thread - If you own one or just like or hate them! :)

[Gibbo]

Hi there

Values, where do we think they are going to go, specifically:

991.1 GT3 PDK: I am seeing these drop what seems quite rapidly, a few cars sub 100k now, of course in white though white does suite the GT3. I hear though there are issues with the engine on 991.1 GT3, is this the reason why they seem to be losing value?
991.2 GT3 PDK: Again dropping, but not as much, seen them around 140k, again do we think they will drop more?

981 GT4 Manual: Seeing this now at 70k, so they seem to be holding value better, is there a new NA GT4 rumoured or coming?


I kind of have three options:
1. Sell the SVR get a 991.1 GT3 and own it, no finance.
2. Sell the SVR, get a 991.2 GT3, finance remainder.
3. Keep the SVR, sell the M3 and buy a GT4 outright.


Nothing is concrete yet, not really hearing selling the SVR at all to be honest, but maybe selling the M3 plus with cash I have set aside could pretty much get me into a GT4 for around 75-80k and that could be become the new track car and of course daily.


Any guys here who own a 991 GT3 or 981 GT4 and use it daily, even when it rains?
I ask because the Carreras, particular GTS make terrific road cars, huge traction even in the wet and you can really use it, yet my short seat time in 991 GT3 the car seems quite loose on the rear, which was quite a surprise, but at same time the new 991 GT3, .2 in particular have vastly more torque and mid range shuff than previous which unsettles the car, of course could remove cups and put on a PS4S but I doubt that would resolve the issue and thus maybe the GT4 is actually maybe a more fun and more capable road car over the GT3 simply as it can put power down, on a track it probably falls behind a little because it is a 100HP down. Be good to hear owners feedback on using GT3 and GT4 as daily's or certainly having driven them in the wet on the road. You could argue when it rains, just chill and drive slow in the wet, but for me I actually thoroughly love the enjoyment of driving quick in the wet and my 911 was so capable in the wet, even on cup tyres.

People who know me know I generally don't like selling cars, the SVR is a great daily and I doubt a GT3 could better it, one thing for sure GT3 would be slower in straight line, but maybe a GT4 can give me all the Pork I need in my life at the expense of letting the M3 go, which could also be a bad decision but at the same time the M3 value is pretty solid and ideally I would need the GT4 to hold its value quite well which if there is no new model planned I suspect it will, so what do people know about GT4, any new NA model planned soon?

 

[Gibbo]

So I experienced my first ride in a road going GT3. Whilst at the ring.

A manual 991.2 Gt3.... The thing was ridiculously fast and loud around the ring. I've never been in anything like it. What suprised me the most was the power shift feature. Allowing the driver to change up without coming off of the throttle..... The shifts were bloody brutal!

How can I get my hands on one of these?!?

I have been eyeing those up too, though I am not fond so much of manuals any more, but in a Porsche I could probably cope with a manual as they probably now make the best manual cars in existance, when I tried the 991.2 GT3 manual, was only at OcUK car park but the clutch felt so light and the box was like a rifle bolt but so delicate and precise, felt lovely.

 

[Gibbo]

Given you change cars often I wouldn’t be put off by option 1. Isn’t it a 10 year warranty on the motor now or something. I wouldn’t expect values to drop steeply, just normal effect of miles and years. Not one for the long long term, but a couple of years of hooning won’t kill you financially!

Gt4 values will be effected by the new 718 gt4 when it arrives immenantly. Heard reports it a detuned gt3 motor, but nordschleife vids sounds like a turbo, who knows! Either way the new one is bound to effect 981 gt4 values.

It is a good point about the 991.1 GT3, basically never a keeper due to engine issues, but maybe a case of grab one, thrash it for a year, then trade it against a 991.2 GT3 if its totally amazing or chop/sell for something else.

I don't think I change my cars that often, the Golf R was just a stop gap whilst I waited to take delivery of a new Mustang, think I owned the grey mustang for around 18 months and before that I had 911 which I had for nearly five years and the M3 I've now owned for 6-7 years.

Lets see, I shall probably just keep my eyes on the car market, in the meantime probably pay the SVR off, the rate was pretty good at 4-5% but if I pay that off saves me some money in interest, then if I do trade it in, no worries about paying off finance as that hurdle passed and even means a private sale is easy if I ever decide to move it on. Just not quite fond of letting go off it yet.

Yeah is new GT4 is FI can see current ones holding value or even going up a bit more, but if new one truly is a GT3 motor then current GT4 values will be hammered!

I don't want to rush into anything, SVR is epic and I can just bide my time and pounce should an opportunity arise.

 

[Gibbo]

The design looks superbly clean!
The width increase and weight increase though is a big shame, one of the biggest hindrance with any car these days is pushing them hard fast on a b-road, as cars become wider, that becomes harder to do so and your confidence reduces due to the width.

997 just like BMW E46 were kind of the perfect size for these powerful GT/Sport cars, now they are becoming wide and heavy, makes them harder to enjoy, even though they are vastly more capable, albeit on a race track.

On the road I can have just as much fun if not more fun in my little Clio 172 cup, simply because I can drive it 10/10th's everywhere.

 

[Gibbo]

So a tuned version of the 3.8 I already have

Makes the jump to the new one much less interesting for me. Might just hold onto mine...

Looks good though and for those who have been loooking at current GT4 values can certainly see those plummeting a little now that the next GT4 is also NA.

 

[Gibbo]

Not sure of the point of rear wheel steer if it’s going to be purely road based.

Having driven 911's with rear steer on road and track, you notice it, makes the car feel sharper, more nimble and smaller/lighter than it is, works on GT3 very well, can only see it been further improved on 992.

 

[Gibbo]

Friday afternoon car that and shocking service from Porsche!

Clutches and gear boxes made from chocolate and strut tops too weak, seems a common failure across them.

992's have being strengthened but Porsche are refusing any responsibility on older cars, seems crazy as such a failure must be like a write off. I am sure no owner wants to be welding a near new car.

 

[Gibbo]

Seems to be a growing controversy around 991 GT3's and GT4's cracking suspension top mounts. A number of cars have shattered their front upright mountings.

https://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/948382-strut-tower-failure.html

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=231&t=1613839

I think its terrible service from Porsche!
The only saving grace is £5400 to repair it does seem a very fair price. They could have easily said 10-20k.

But I feel warranty should cover that or there should be at least 50% contribution as hitting pot holes, or curbs on a race track or spinning off (as long as you don't hit anything) this should not be happening, especially on such a low miles car.

What is more scary is Porsches have no weight in the front, so what are the strut towers made from, literally cheese?

E46 M3 can do the same, but it is rare and the fact that I've hit countless curbs, spun of several times and used my car as daily on roads and its on 115k miles, the strut towers are original and still fine.


This kind of issue could damage Porsche reputation, my experience with Porsche ownership was fantastic but when you see stuff like this, it was really put one off, plus he probably also needs a new wheel and pair of front tyres so probably another 1-2k in expense to put car right and I know its in the compound but the car covered in all that bird poo, they should still hose them off if that happens as bird crap can ruin paint if left on it.

 

[Gibbo]

Ha! They did not give a **** at the hundreds (if not thousands) of 997 and 987 engines that blew up and that did no harm to their reputation, people are still clamouring over each other to get their hands on Porsches.

If anything, them doing absolutely nothing about it is about what you'd expect them to do given their history.

Yeah very true, I still purchased one! Mine I felt was properly put together and always felt solid.

 

[Gibbo]

yep those look fabulous.

 

[Gibbo]

4.0 414bhp flat 6 apparently (for the GT4)

This, will be an epic car, good luck getting one for 75k on flip side might push the last gen GT4 down in price a bit in a year or so once the inflated prices for these end and they hit used market in a year or two time.

 

[Gibbo]

Sadly the GTS has to go back to the dealer again, it's taking a few seconds to start and on Monday it took 3 attempts to start - each time it would fire up, then the revs drop and it would cut out

Managed to get it going by giving it some gas on start up eventually but it's not right.

MAF sensor I suspect.
Easy to diagnose to unplug the MAF and if it then runs fine, it is your MAF sensor as with the MAF unplugged on a Porsche they run a different engine map.

 

[Gibbo]

Yes.

Just unplug, if it then stops cutting out, just order a new one online and problem fixed unless its under warranty and Porsche should cover supply and fit of that.

 

[Gibbo]

Thanks mate, have given it a go and it started fine. Will leave it unplugged and try it again in a few hours, if it starts fine I'll get it sorted

Yep car will divert to an Alpha-N map I believe, so its safe to drive, though I'd personally not be driving it at 10/10ths as the air flow will be a pre-calibrated map and not actual flow as reported by MAF sensors, it is generally a bosche sensor and they seem to typically last around five years.

 

[Gibbo]

In the market for a 991.1 Carrera or S.
Apart from the usual options that I am told to look for or think about (Chrono, Sports Exhaust & 20" wheels) What else should I be thinking about. I know there were a load of problems with the 997 generation but these 991 seem like proper sorted cars mechanically don't they?

997.2 onwards were generally problem free.

Believe it or not and if money can stretch a 991.1 C4S is where money should go as the 4S was actually a better drive than 2S even though AWD simply as the 4S came later it had revised steering software for more feel etc. Otherwise a 991.1 C2 or C2S is still fantastic or maybe try to find a 997.2 GTS, again superb cars.

997.1 and earlier suffered from bore scoring, effects them all at somepoint and the earlier cars also had RMS issues, basically unless you willing to deal with engine rebuilds it is best to go 997.2 or later as per your post as they are more robust and more reliable with no major engine defects.

 

[Gibbo]

I've been looking at 991.1s this year with a view to buying something early next. I'm not sure chrono is a deal breaker but most seem to have it. I think you want a minimum of Bose as Porsche stereos are fairly pony. Also paddle wheel may or may not be a deal breaker for you depending if you value a multifunction wheel or not, that's easy to swap over after but expensive at around £1k.

Things like cruise control and parking sensors aren't standard, so again, depending on whether you value them you may want to hold out.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-...579456?hash=item4207ac6280:g:C-8AAOSwWkxdbuMw Slightly higher mileage but if you can handle the very red interior that's quite well specced but private cars seem to be hanging around for a long time for what I've noticed.

Sports steering wheel is an absolute must for me as I tend to drive my cars always in manual mode, hence paddles absolute must, having driven 911's with the multifunction wheels with buttons I felt they made the car feel totally inert, crazy how a wheel can do that but it did, but don't let it be a deal breaker as I believe the sports wheel can be retro-fitted for £750-1k.

 

[Gibbo]

Well done . I had my first every 911 drive this weekend, and I think I get it now.

They've never clicked with me despite being a big car nut, I like the Carrera Classic and 964 to look at but apart from that don't care. Thought I better see what all the fuss is about before I buy an R8 so tried a 991.1 C2S this weekend. Wow, you can actually feel the heritage somehow and the engine placement seems to turn the cabin into a big resonator what a howl. Mighty tempted!

Carrera all day long over an R8 V8, if your talking R8 V10, well thats a bit different, but I'd probably still look for a very nice spec 991.1 2s or 4s, will hold value better, more reliable, cost less to run.

 

[Gibbo]

It doesn't feel as mad though. I drove an R8 V8 S-Tronic the next day, and sat still it feels quicker. The 911 felt normal until I was driving quickly when it came alive, whereas the R8 feels ready to go all the time.

I can't decide tbh, the 911 seems certainly the more sensible of the two but does that mean it's better. I feel like I could have an R8 and then a 911, but not the other way around.

The Pros of one are the Cons of the other. You can park a 911 in Lidl and no-one cares.

Having owned an a Carrera S (997.1) which was 360HP, it was pulled 1-2 car lengths on Donnington back straight over my mates R8 V8 manual, both cars were manuals, the 911 with it less weight, less transmission loss was a quicker car on a roll (marginally) and just as quick from a dig, 911's have epic mechanical traction and with under 400HP the need for AWD is not really required, unless wet.

But having driven R8's on the road, if you want attention, an R8 will bring you huge attention from pretty much everyone, whereas a 911 will go more unnoticed unless its a bright coloured aerokit car, but even then an R8 is a shouty look at me car and in V8 form aint really got that much go, I personally find V8's slow, drive a V10 you will be shocked, they get up and go from lower RPM better and then just howl and never stop until beyond 8000rpm.

 

[Gibbo]

First world problems eh. I probably won't buy until the start of next year anyway, unless the perfect car arrives. I wish I could stretch to a 4S, not for the AWD but the widebody which imo makes all the difference. Realistically I'm in the 45-55k range and even that involves a very large brave pill. BUT that's what it's for right? Can't spend it when you're dead.

It depresses me that despite Racing Yellow being a base colour, no bugger bought them! So boring in grey/white.

Unfortunately most 911's get purchased in dull colours, speed yellow is rare and in used market generally carries a premium, because rarity. The 991.1 C4S is a beter drive than the C2S believe it or not as Porsche were still making improvements on the 991 platform and the C4S had better steering feel compared to the 2S, no doubt more due to software/rack changes on them rather then because AWD as in the 997 platform the 2S was a much rawer fun car, but in 991 platform the 4S seems the one to get, or of course a GTS, but that takes nothing away from a C2S, epic car and in 991 form quite a bit faster than an R8 V8.

 

[Gibbo]

The engine in the facelift 987 S and the 981 S are pretty similar. The 981 gains a massive 5hp. By all accounts the PDK is better on the latter model, and of course the looks and interior are different... the 981 is miles nicer in both respects. I'd definitely be gunning for an S model in either generation.

981 Boxster S with PDK is nothing short of an incredible drive, great fun, very capable, glorious sound. The new 718's are hugely capable but give me zero interest, sound junk and have very apparent turbo lag.