Possible coup in Zimbabwe

[dowie]

Seems that Mugabe's decision to make his wife the heir apparent rather than his Vice President (who apparently wanted to bring back white farmers and make amends with the IMF etc..) may have backfired as troops have been deployed on the streets and a possible coup may well be underway.

https://www.bbc.com/pidgin/tori-41987363

Di mood for Zimbabwe dey mixed after army draw ear give President Robert Mugabe make im stop di sack sack of people wey fight for independence for inside di ruling ZANU-PF party.

On Monday, Army chief general Constantino Chiwenga draw ear give Mugabe to stop after im sack Vice President Emmerson Mnangagwa.

Dis na di latest sack wey according to tori na to pave way for Grace Mugabe to succeed.

Chiwenga talk say if things no change, army go fit step in. ''Di thing wey dey happen now for inside di ZANU-PF party by people wey no get di freedom history of di party no surprise us…''

''We get to remind di people wey dey behind am say wen e reach to protect our revolution, di military no go hesitate to step in.''

Di army oga talk dis one for tori meeting for Harare. Chiwenga, Mnangagwa and Mugabe all gather for di fight for independence from Britain.

 

[dowie]

guardian carried this picture of what it called a "tank" - rather a dodgy Chinese armoured vehicle, perhaps symptomatic of the state of the country the track on the right hand side appears to have fallen off

https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...e-army-control-harare-coup-robert-mugabe-live

 

[dowie]

I'd like to think that the Foreign Office had finally saw sense and backed a coup in Zimbabwe but I think we all know that unless Boris has been out on the booze with Mark Thatcher and they thought it would be a laugh that its unlikely that our Government would do anything sensible.

lol yup does seem rather hopeful - I guess there perhaps is a chance that the generals themselves got in contact with some Western powers themselves when planning it - the sacked Vice President they support did want to rebuild links with the international community after all and they've been careful to try and portray it as "not a coup" (lol) etc..

 

[dowie]

Oi, fix your bloody OP, get shot of that rubbish pidgen stuff!

Why? I like the pidgin stuff. I think it is also fitting given the often farcical nature coups on the continent - especially in this case when they're adamant that it isn't a coup... honest - they're just securing the President and removing criminal elements...

 

[dowie]

The generals are his cronies.

Or at least they have been running Zimbabwe together for decades which is close enough.

But now they disagree it doesn't mean they want something better, more likely they want to keep the power they have.

but the Vice President does seem to want something better - he seemingly wants white farmers back and wants to make amends with the international community... this (possibly) could be a good thing

 

[dowie]

Typical OCUK anti Mugabe brigade rearing their heads. Nothing to see, move along.

is this supposed to be ironic - pretending that being "anti Mugabe" is a bad thing?

 

[dowie]

It's not really a coup to be fair, it's not like the military is taking control of the country, what's happening is that the elected party has decided it's leader has strayed too far from it's ideals and so is replacing them for the good of the party/country.

It's essentially the same thing that happened with Thatcher and the Tories back in the early nineties, just not as clean/efficient due to the systems in place for it not being as well defined.

"essentially the same thing that happened with Thatcher and the Tories back in the early nineties"

LOL yeah OK, because they had the army take over the streets back in the 90s... what on earth are you smoking, the military has taken over this is not the same as the rest of the govt voting the leader out

of course it is a coup, one dictator is being replaced by another... maybe they'll have some elections in due course if the new dictator does want to rebuild links with the international community but remember what happened when the MDC apparently won an election in the past

Coup de Grace? Have they decided where Grace is at the moment?

she's apparently fled to Namibia, presumably she didn't want to go to South Africa as if she lost the diplomatic immunity she'd potentially face criminal charges after doing this to a young South African girl she caught with her sons:

 

[dowie]

there was a plan to invade at the start of the millennium when they started invading farms etc.. if the killings of white farmers started ramping up then we may have had to send in troops to evacuate the rest of them with British citizenship... obviously the former colonial power sending in troops could easily have caused a **** storm on international condemnation

allegedly Tony Blair also suggested an invasion with the aim of regime change to be carried out with the support of Thabo Mbeki/South Africa - perhaps conditions for most of the population would be better today had the happened... then again that's not saying too much, conditions were better for the population back under minority white rule, while simultaneously facing international sanctions and fighting a counterinsurgency

 

[dowie]

Yes it is.

The government is still in power, the elected party is still in government, the only difference is the leader of the party in government is changing. The government had to use the army in Zimbabwe because they knew Mugabe wouldn't go quietly if told, I'm fairly sure if Thatcher had refused then she would have been removed by the authorities (police not army but that's the difference between the first/third world).



Leader of elected party and service leader of the country being replaced by a new one, just like with Thatcher/Major.



There may be new elections but as has been discussed it's not required just like it isn't in this country.

the ruling party has now moved to vote him out - however this happened AFTER the military took over and removed certain elements... you're living on another planet if you think this is comparable to removing Thatcher - objectively it is not the same situation... the military (or police if you like) did not remove Thatcher and then later had the Conservatives vote

the only weak comparison here is that the leader of the country changed - you're really clutching at straws if that is the basis for stating these things are similar

 

[dowie]

Read the thread.

Myself and others were comparing the process of the elected party in government moving to replace it's leader due to them being seen to no longer serve the interests of the party/government, in that instance the situations with Mugabe and Thatcher are most definitely compatible due to being essentially the same.

The fact that Thatcher went willingly as per protocol whereas Mugabe refused necessitating the government involving the military is the major difference, as has been mentioned/discussed.

I've read the thread thanks, you're making no sense at all with this comparison between a military take over in the third world and Thatcher being removed! It just isn't very comparable at all...

 

[dowie]

Zimbabwe isn't really a 3rd world country. It's just not moved on since Mugabe took over.

It's among the bottom 30 poorest countries in the world, I think that qualifies it as third world - otherwise we've got very few "third world" countries...

Moved on? It went backwards at a great rate of knots. Nobody wants to admit it was more successful when Smith ran it, that would probably be considered racist eh!

yeah, but true though

 

[dowie]

Just suggested western media had an agenda against Robert and he has probably done some good work in places over the years that goes ignored.

LOL

Do you also think historians have an agenda against Mussolini? I mean he probably did some good too - supposedly he made sure the trains ran on time...

 

[dowie]

looking like an improvement so far - White farmer gets his farm back after it was recently stolen by a "Bishop"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/07/new-regime-zimbabwe-hands-back-land-evicted-white-farmer/

indigenisation law requiring local black ownership of 51% of company shares to be scrapped aside from diamond and platinum miners

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/...st-mugabe-economic-order-171209055831633.html

there was also talk (I can remember in which publication I read it this morning and am two lazy to search for it again) about the land reform program being halted and compensation for white farmers who lost their land, though he's ruled out returning land taken under the land reform program (I suppose the recent case mentioned above is an exception to this)