Pre-Budget: Boiler Scrappage

matt_fsr · 9 Dec 2009 at 15:38

Now this is probably actually a good scheme for me, as I might be able to get rid of my old "hot water tank" system and get a decent combi-boiler in the house, and save some money.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8403593.stm

However, the thing that gets my goat is this quote that the BBC highlights:

"A quarter of all the country's emissions come from households Chancellor Alistair Darling"

Now hang on a minute... doesnt that mean that most of the rest of the emissions comes from BUSINESSES?!

So surely, in aims of reducing carbon (and that in itself is worth a :rolleyes:

) why are we targeting homes, and not businesses?

'Tards.

Russinating · 9 Dec 2009 at 15:40

Because the carbon produced by businesses (on the whole) benefits the government via taxes/exports/etc? Your heating system benefits no-one but you

scorza · 9 Dec 2009 at 15:44

Everyone needs to do their bit, homes, businesses and other organisations. If we only concentrate on one then holistically we fail.

B******s could have done this last year though, I replaced my old boiler in March and could have done with £400

matt_fsr · 9 Dec 2009 at 15:48

scorza said:
I replaced my old boiler in March and could have done with £400

You should have asked for a higher price for her!

Mat · 9 Dec 2009 at 15:52

I'm going to take a look at my boiler this evening and see what I might be able to do. I have a Baxi back boiler at the mo so I'll need to do some investigative work beforehand...

dannyjo22 · 9 Dec 2009 at 15:53

I don't know why they are not investing more in geothermal heating especially in new builds. Besides whats the point in Gas central heating when we will be building nuclear power stations and russia might cut our gas supply.

St0rmer66 · 9 Dec 2009 at 15:55

Mat said:
I'm going to take a look at my boiler this evening and see what I might be able to do. I have a Baxi back boiler at the mo so I'll need to do some investigative work beforehand...

Baxi have just brought out a new condensing back boiler so that would be a good start if you don't want to change to a combi-boiler. You have to change to an electric fire though, but they do about 15 different designs that all fit on.

And R.E. the OP: "hot water tank systems" as you put it.. are not "old tech" at all. Yours may be old, but the idea itself is still perfectly good and gives much better hot water delivery than any combi boiler. You would save barely anything over a well-insulated hot water cylinder by changing to a combi. In fact, the extra cost of removing it all and changing the pipework (which is quite a considerable amount of difference) would take almost the life of the boiler to 'get back' I imagine.

Stupot_ · 9 Dec 2009 at 15:58

matt_fsr said:
Now this is probably actually a good scheme for me, as I might be able to get rid of my old "hot water tank" system and get a decent combi-boiler in the house, and save some money.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8403593.stm

However, the thing that gets my goat is this quote that the BBC highlights:

"A quarter of all the country's emissions come from households Chancellor Alistair Darling"

Now hang on a minute... doesnt that mean that most of the rest of the emissions comes from BUSINESSES?!

So surely, in aims of reducing carbon (and that in itself is worth a ) why are we targeting homes, and not businesses?

'Tards.

I think they mean a quarter comes from the home. Sounds about right, the biggest polluter is the construction industry (i.e. all the new houses being built), new homes are designed up to a certain level, code for sustainable homes, all new houses will be zero carbon by 2016, with businesses set to match the level a couple of years later. However, they might be dealing with current needs but the problem is also with existing stock having shoddy boilers/insulation etc. Makes sense to retrofit existing houses rather than waste resources with new builds. So... yeh. They're just trying to give you incentives to upgrade dated systems.

jamief · 9 Dec 2009 at 16:02

dannyjo22 said:
I don't know why they are not investing more in geothermal heating especially in new builds. Besides whats the point in Gas central heating when we will be building nuclear power stations and russia might cut our gas supply.

Because for the end user, gas central heating is by far the cheapest?

philjohn · 9 Dec 2009 at 16:04

dannyjo22 said:
I don't know why they are not investing more in geothermal heating especially in new builds. Besides whats the point in Gas central heating when we will be building nuclear power stations and russia might cut our gas supply.

Because it's still cheaper to heat with gas than with electric, and whilst I laud the decision to build more nuclear power stations, it's not "cheap" electricity to produce by any stretch of the imagination.

Mat · 9 Dec 2009 at 16:05

St0rmer66 said:
Baxi have just brought out a new condensing back boiler so that would be a good start if you don't want to change to a combi-boiler. You have to change to an electric fire though, but they do about 15 different designs that all fit on.

Thanks for that! I don't use the gas fireplace anyway as the house is warm enough without it (since I took advantage of the insulation grant).

Dolph · 9 Dec 2009 at 16:12

A pretty reasonable idea, that may actually have green credentials and provide a good stimulus to areas of the economy.

Cutting household emissions is likely to have a good effect overall, because most people only want a house at a certain temperature etc, and efficiency improvements work well towards that.

matt_fsr · 9 Dec 2009 at 16:15

St0rmer66 said:
And R.E. the OP: "hot water tank systems" as you put it.. are not "old tech" at all. Yours may be old, but the idea itself is still perfectly good and gives much better hot water delivery than any combi boiler. You would save barely anything over a well-insulated hot water cylinder by changing to a combi. In fact, the extra cost of removing it all and changing the pipework (which is quite a considerable amount of difference) would take almost the life of the boiler to 'get back' I imagine.

Got any more details on that? AFAIK the old system is inefficient as you need to have 100+ litres of water hot, all the time, and this then runs out if you fill a bath, then want to wash the pots?

I do have my hot water tank as insulated as possible, but it still seems to be a wasteful, inefficient system.

cm1179 · 9 Dec 2009 at 16:17

nice one. i might be taking them up on this

merlin · 9 Dec 2009 at 16:18

Confused, can have my 30 year old Boiler replaced for £400, or is the Govt contribution £400?

dannyjo22 · 9 Dec 2009 at 16:35

jamief said:
Because for the end user, gas central heating is by far the cheapest?

How can it be, they built anew estate around here with one bored hole that feeds the whole new estate. It maintains 42 degree water temp for next to nothing.

I do not understand why more new build developements don't have to have this as part of the regulations.

Any additional temp required is topped up by a boiler.

Gas maybe cheaper at the minute but it's not going to remain so for very much longer, plus we are not in control of the source. How much longer realitically is gas central heating going to be a cost effective way of heating a house?

cm1179 · 9 Dec 2009 at 16:37

merlin said:
Confused, can have my 30 year old Boiler replaced for £400, or is the Govt contribution £400?

it means the government will contribute £400. you'll need to stump up the extra +/- £1000

jamief · 9 Dec 2009 at 16:40

dannyjo22 said:
I do not understand why more new build developements don't have to have this as part of the regulations.

We aren't speaking about new build developments, or projected rises in gas costs, we are speaking about what is currently cheapest (by far) for the end user, and the answer is natural gas.

dannyjo22 · 9 Dec 2009 at 16:42

cm1179 said:
it means the government will contribute £400. you'll need to stump up the extra +/- £1000

+ another 50% now every plumber in the country knows there's a load of people going to be on the phone asking for a quote

jamief said:
We aren't speaking about new build developments, or projected rises in gas costs, we are speaking about what is currently cheapest (by far) for the end user, and the answer is natural gas.

A bit short sighted isn't it to get all these new gas boilers fitted into older properties when gas isn't seen as even that short term a solution to our energy needs?

jamief · 9 Dec 2009 at 16:47

dannyjo22 said:
A bit short sighted isn't it to get all these new gas boilers fitted into older properties when gas isn't seen as even that short term a solution to our energy needs?

What would the alternative be? Fit something which costs considerably more to run now in the assumption that it'll cost less in the long term? The price differential is such just now that unless electric heating becomes cheaper than gas in the next 5-6 years, there is no point in fitting it now.