Private enterprise - the cyanide pill for the UK

[Dolph]

Austerity does not work.... period.
Unless of course people think they know more about this subject that Paul Krugman

Watch the video, the truth behind what the scummy tories are trying to do starts at 5:05, Krugman nails it.

Creating growth on the nevernever also doesn't work. sacrificing the living standards of future generations for fraudulent growth now is not a solution.

Austerity does work if the aim is a sustainable future, rather than short term fake growth.

we are currently borrowing 9% of gdp a year, and public spending is rising year on year. exactly how much more do you want to borrow? remember labour ran stimulus from 2002 onwards during a boom...

 

[mmj_uk]

Serco aren't very good at anything, they've already been banned from operating in Norway for unethical behaviour.

Multinationals like them have little concern for providing a good service only in lobbying for and securing government contracts and maximising profits, a similar company called A4e have already been found to be operating fraudulently on numerous occasions in recent months but our government does not seem to care about the tax payer money they're systematically siphoning off.

 

[scorza]

Let the market decide how many dirty bombs we let into the country.

 

[Meridian]

the difference is (or should be) that the private firms, when they fail, get replaced. this doesn't happen in the public sector.

If your argument was true then Serco would not have a single government contract, since they **** up on a regular basis. Since they have a lot of such contracts, and get more all the time, it would suggest that yet again you are confusing theory with reality. And I think the whole idea of the post here was to point out that the problems began with Serco, and not finished with them. Since I would guess that the Serco staff are paid rather less than the people originally doing the work (that's the whole point of privatising contracts after all), then unsurprisingly, the new workers cared a good deal less than the original ones about doing a proper job. With predictable results. But never mind, I'm sure the whole process is cheaper than it was.


M

 

[Dolph]

If your argument was true then Serco would not have a single government contract, since they **** up on a regular basis. Since they have a lot of such contracts, and get more all the time, it would suggest that yet again you are confusing theory with reality. And I think the whole idea of the post here was to point out that the problems began with Serco, and not finished with them. Since I would guess that the Serco staff are paid rather less than the people originally doing the work (that's the whole point of privatising contracts after all), then unsurprisingly, the new workers cared a good deal less than the original ones about doing a proper job. With predictable results. But never mind, I'm sure the whole process is cheaper than it was.


M

Hence why I advocate devolving spending power down to the individual rather than replacing single provider public monopoly with single provider private monopoly based on the decisions of public sector workers....

 

[Energize]

When you can easily make chemical weapons like phosgene at home, the last thing I'm concerned about is a dirty bomb, big deal.

 

[robgmun]

Labour was not responsible for the Global Recession!

And neither are the Tories, you can't have it both ways mate

 

[pingwing]

There's too much common sense from the Nobel prize winner and an embarrassing lack of thought in the two arguing with him LIKE THEY KNOW BETTER

Anyway, he's right, it's stupid to mix austerity with the "size of the state" and use this as an ideological mess, especially when they problem is no demand for produce. So what's the point in relying on the private sector to do stuff when no one wants what they are doing in the first place.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Hence why I advocate devolving spending power down to the individual

You are absolutely hilarious at times, are you still hung up on this bonkers idea?

How does an individual decide which company to hire to protect the borders of the country he lives in?

 

[Angilion]

Does privatisation have to result in lower pay to the workers? What if there's loads of unnecessary management, which can be got rid of entirely? That way the rest of the workers can keep their pay, or even get more. There are all sorts of ways to reduce costs, it doesn't necessarily need to be pay cuts across the board .

It won't be pay cuts across the board. It'll be pay cuts at the lower and lower-middle levels. It'll be pay rises at the upper levels.

Some people have a weird idea of what private businesses are for. They exist for one purpose and one purpose only - to make money for the upper levels. The only time they are benevolent is when they are owned and run by a benevolent individual, and even then the benevolence is forcibly limited by the system itself, since it will put that business at a financial disadvantage in comparison with less benevolent businesses. In pure capitalism, benevolence above a minimal level is an imperfection because it reduces profit.

It reminds me of communist propaganda. I'm pretty sure some people believe that a communist society would be a utopia, with abundant prosperity for everyone a guaranteed outcome of communism, which will of course be a state run by the people in which every individual has power as well as wealth (which of course everyone will have under communism, the perfect system). A small group of benevolent people, devoted to serving everyone, will of course have to have overall power, but the beauty of communism is that it makes it a certainty that only the best people will be those positions of power.

Maybe pure communism would be a utopia, if the world was perfect and everyone in it was a saint.

Maybe pure capitalism would be a utopia, if the world was perfect and everyone in it was a saint.

In reality, either extreme is inefficient and unfair, leading to a tiny elite holding almost all the wealth and having absolute power over the downtrodden masses who scrape a poor living serving the tiny elite.

 

[Dolph]

You are absolutely hilarious at times, are you still hung up on this bonkers idea?

How does an individual decide which company to hire to protect the borders of the country he lives in?

so because there are a few things that don't fit the model, it shouldn't be implemented at any level?

your lack of vision knows no bounds.

 

[[TW]Fox]

so because there are a few things that don't fit the model, it shouldn't be implemented at any level?

There are more than a few things.

your lack of vision knows no bounds.

Your lack of ability to see the UK does not consist of 67 million Dolphs knows no bounds.

We went through this when you seriously suggested everyone should be pick which bin lorry firm they want.

Your ideas make sense only in a utopian society filled with people of high intelligence.

 

[Xordium]

so because there are a few things that don't fit the model, it shouldn't be implemented at any level?

your lack of vision knows no bounds.

 

[Danthus]

Your lack of ability to see the UK does not consist of 67 million Dolphs knows no bounds.

67 millions Dolphs is a terrifying thought.

 

[[TW]Fox]

67 millions Dolphs is a terrifying thought.

You'd be able to decide exactly who you wanted to empty your bins, though. Imagine having that to think about. Wouldn't it be amazing?

 

[Danthus]

so because there are a few things that don't fit the model, it shouldn't be implemented at any level?

your lack of vision knows no bounds.

How would you implement it?

 

[Spamalot]

You're right, what good has any private company done? If I could I'd buy everything from the government, bring back British Layland, people are board of all these cars that work so well.

People need to get over the fact that profit is not a naughty word, it's very positive and currently the best way we have of assuring that organisations compete and deliver products that people want to a reliable quality.

 

[[TW]Fox]

You're right, what good has any private company done? If I could I'd buy everything from the government, bring back British Layland, people are board of all these cars that work so well.

People need to get over the fact that profit is not a naughty word, it's very positive and currently the best way we have of assuring that organisations compete and deliver products that people want to a reliable quality.

It works for most things and works very well for those things.

What it doesn't work well for are things people need but which are not profitable to provide.

 

[Spamalot]

It works for most things and works very well for those things.

What it doesn't work well for are things people need but which are not profitable to provide.

If people need them they will pay for them, even if it's indirectly through taxation. That's not to say that these can't still be provided by a private, profit driven company.

 

[[TW]Fox]

If people need them they will pay for them, even if it's indirectly through taxation. That's not to say that these can't still be provided by a private, profit driven company.

In an ideal world. But in the same ideal world what if the profit the company would make was instead re-invested in services or simply used to reduce the cost of providing the service? It makes logical sense that removing the profit element from a service makes it cheaper to provide.

Now we all know in reality it doesnt work like that, but given we are having a theory based argument anyway...