Pussy Riot face jail - what are your views?

Burnsy2023 said:
Since when do I need to be an expert on Russian problems to comment on fundamental differences in approaches to public order policing?
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You don't need to be an expert to ask questions and discuss, but you do need to be an expert in the field to claim that other person is clearly so wrong that you would "feel sorry for him", which is a cheap condescending rhetoric.

I personally feel it's a bit unfair you would be condescending towards him given that your own information is based on few biased articles, I know you said you "read various sources to get clear picture" but given you are a British citizen I doubt you devout much time to understand current Russian affairs and as such I would presume your outlook on situation is quite misinformed, hence I am trying to make a point, if you are not an expert on the field or at least not well informed, then don't sound like a pompous you know what.
 
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physichull said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26265230

Pretty despicable behaviour from the Russian security services, whipping and beating the band members. I really have so little respect for the Russian government at the moment. This event aside, Sochi has been turned into a political event and has somewhat undermined the Olympic spirit.
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estebanrey said:
certainly no worse than British cops beating protesters with their batons in the UK, footage of which appears every single time a protest happens.
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Are we watching the same video? That was way worse than anything the British Police ever do!
 
Craterloads said:
True, she should be grateful she wasn't another Ian Tomlinson.
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Looking on the positive side, the fact that the same name always comes up in these sorts of discussions shows how rare it is.

Nerusy said:
You don't need to be an expert to ask questions and discuss, but you do need to be an expert in the field to claim that other person is clearly so wrong that you would "feel sorry for him", which is a cheap condescending rhetoric.

I personally feel it's a bit unfair you would be condescending towards him given that you own information is based on few biased articles, I know you said you "read various sources to get clear picture" but given you are a British citizen I doubt you devout much time to understand current Russian affairs and as such I would presume your outlook on situation is quite misinformed, hence I am trying to make a point, if you are not an expert on the field or at least not well informed, then don't sound like a pompous you know what.
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Firstly:

Nerusy said:
but given you are a British citizen
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Am I? That's news to me.

Secondly, Police corruption in Russia is high, the corruption index from transparency international shows that. It is not the same in the UK. The wages for Police in Russia are so low that taking bribes is part of their culture - from necessity.

Finally, if I'm so ill informed, show me evidence to the contrary.
 
Burnsy2023 said:
Looking on the positive side, the fact that the same name always comes up in these sorts of discussions shows how rare it is.



Firstly:



Am I? That's news to me.

Secondly, Police corruption in Russia is high, the corruption index from transparency international shows that. It is not the same in the UK. The wages for Police in Russia are so low that taking bribes is part of their culture - from necessity.

Finally, if I'm so ill informed, show me evidence to the contrary.
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Fine, change citizen to resident, if you're from ex soviet bloc then your negative bias is even greater towards Russia. Point being, you're not from there nor are you an expert so what gives you any right to claim superior knowledge over other person.

So your point is Russia is more corrupt than the UK. It is a bit different from the original point of difference in approach of public policing. So you going for moving goal post logical fallacy straight away eh.

The comment that prompted my reply deals with police brutality rather than corruption; and if we start talking about this incident then I should point out the cossacks are hired security and I it's not exactly unheard that security personnel in the UK have gotten themselves into similar problem. On top of that, lets not forget recent events of Ian Tomlinson or just google UK police brutality Olympics. (No I am not arguing that UK police brutality is worse or equal to Russian)

However all of this is really nothing to do with my original point I made to you, which I will reiterate once again, condescending reply is not a valid argument in a discussion. Especially if you are not well informed on the subject.

Edit: On an unrelated note to discussion but relating to your misinformed view is the fact that Russian police wage is in fact above average of the country. As for sources, you did not present any sources yourself, so I wont either.
 
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deuse said:
What's this we? are you a full time cop or still a part timer? And in every thread about the cops you make excuses for bad policing.
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When I say we I meant you, sorry for being ambiguous. I'll happily condemn other officer's behaviour when I'm informed enough to do so, otherwise I show that there are other sides to the story.
 
I don't think the Police are improving in most cases, any City centre at night you can see the Police wading into fights all guns blazing where as proper Policing and calming purps down should be the number one priority.

Do Police still have the van of "Massive rugby type coppers" that they wheel out for the juicy fights?
 
G|mp said:
I don't think the Police are improving in most cases, any City centre at night you can see the Police wading into fights all guns blazing where as proper Policing and calming purps down should be the number one priority.
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The fact that most of the public have this expectation shows how different we are from most of the rest of the world.

G|mp said:
Do Police still have the van of "Massive rugby type coppers" that they wheel out for the juicy fights?
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I wouldn't phrase it like that , but it's force dependent. The Met obviously have the TSG and Hampshire have something similar called FSU. Not all forces have a dedicated resource though.
 
Burnsy2023 said:
The fact that most of the public have this expectation shows how different we are from most of the rest of the world.

I wouldn't phrase it like that , but it's force dependent. The Met obviously have the TSG and Hampshire have something similar called FSU. Not all forces have a dedicated resource though.
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Don't get me wrong, a majority are good but I've seen it far too often for it to be rare.

TSG, FSU you know as well as I do it's the hard ****ers that don't mind a bit of a scrap. (I have experience unfortunately)
 
Burnsy2023 said:
Since when do I need to be an expert on Russian problems to comment on fundamental differences in approaches to public order policing?
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Can you please explain the difference between Russian police baton beating people on the floor and British police baton beating people on the floor? because aside form the manufacturer of the batons I'm not really seeing it...

Saying something that happens regularly in this country is somehow worse if it happens in Russia, just because it's Russia is a bit silly.
 
Burnsy2023 said:
When I say we I meant you, sorry for being ambiguous. I'll happily condemn other officer's behaviour when I'm informed enough to do so, otherwise I show that there are other sides to the story.
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See now Von is a honest cop and tells it like it is. You on the other hand are the complete opposite. So your still a part timer. Less of the royal we ;)
 
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