1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Quote for electric work

Discussion in 'Home and Garden' started by Ahleckz, Jun 16, 2020.

  1. Adam_151

    Mobster

    Joined: May 18, 2004

    Posts: 2,684

    Location: Lincoln, Uk

    If that blank was missing out the front when it was tested, then thats a C1 (in a domestic anyway, I would be tempted to reduce to C2 if it was in a commericial building within locked plant room, etc) but in domestic anyone could stick fingers in. I know he has flagged up "CU not to Ip4x - C2" but thats refering to the top surface, its the tops of enclosures that should be to Ip4x (and rarely are - but yours looks like all cables enter from the back, so possibly)

    The doubling up isn't great, but I don't see any thermal damage?

    That CU is a good few generations old, to put it in OCUK forum specific terms, I think 2 megabytes would have been a very good amount of ram when that was fitted! Breakers haven't been available new for a very long time, up until about 10/15 years ago, MK did make a retro-fit kit to fit their newer breakers in that board, but that was at least one generation of MK ago, and then they ceased being in the consumer unit business at the start of this year. Its not the done thing because you shouldn't mix and match, but I do think hager breakers do go in, look completely wrong though, and like I said, it shouldn't be done except as a "get out of ****" temporary solution!

    I'd go with a CU change, but I'd advise you to ask for a price for one that includes type A RCDs (commonly called an "18th edition consumer unit") as I think in a few years AC RCDS will be history, if you have fancy PC gear you might also want to consider surge protection which is commonly installed at the CU these days.

    Edit: That 40A MCB may be worth a bit to someone on ebay, you could try asking him to leave the board on site for you....
     
  2. lewism

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 10, 2006

    Posts: 2,589

    Location: Fife

    Don't know what half the people in here are going on about to be honest. You're using a firm, thus paying the VAT. You need to use a firm for the certificate for your landlords insurance. If he's small enough he probably needs the jobs for his audit trail for his certification body. Never mind the fact you have probably the hob and oven off one MCB and two rings off another. You need a new board. The only thing i'd argue against is that his continuity should be investigated as part of the board change, i do an hour fault find included in any board I change over.

    That Consumer unit is probably 25 Years old, if not older. His prices are reasonable. The new CU should last an equal amount of time, If you don't want to pay, get someone to do it cash, but good luck getting a certificate that's worth the paper its written on. Surprised you've not been told to install smoke detectors as well, unless you already have them.

    Being a landlord sucks, and costs money. Part of the game.
     
  3. lewism

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 10, 2006

    Posts: 2,589

    Location: Fife

    Yeah, it's bad practice - albeit something i'd only really consider a C3 if it was the correct type of fixing on to the busbar at least. But under the regulations, introducing another make leaves all the responsibility on to the person that's installed the breaker. So whoever signs the minor works (if it gets done hahaha) signs their life away.

    The only way you'd get around it is if its a legacy brand such as Merlin Gerin to Schneider etc. But on these shonky old single phase boards, it's easier to swap them out.

     
  4. Ahleckz

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 7, 2009

    Posts: 17,703

    Location: Glasgow

    Cheers again.

    I didn’t realise the board was that old! I think I’ll just suck it up and pay the money for the new board and get them to install the socket.

    Thanks for the help!
     
  5. Buffman

    Sgarrista

    Joined: May 4, 2007

    Posts: 7,642

    Location: Warwickshire

    The cost of the board you posted seemed reasonable (maybe more like 400 inc vat is better).

    Do you want me to send you number of someone I've used before in Glasgow? Hes been good for investigative /fiddly fix work in an old flat and good for family.Trust me if so. (im sure he will be on rated people or trusted trader etc too)
     
  6. Ahleckz

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 7, 2009

    Posts: 17,703

    Location: Glasgow

    Hi,

    So, I'm trying to fix some of the issues myself. I'm trying to sort this:
    "C2 No continuity of line conductor on socket ring main"

    I assume that means that there's a problem with the wires of a socket perhaps being loose? Now, it could be the wires in the walls or it could be an issue with the actual wiring in the socket. If it's the latter, I should be able to sort this...

    If I buy this little gadget, will that tell me if there is a fault that I can then fix and hopefully eradicate the issue? They want £80 to come and test, and then more to fix the problem. But if I can hopefully check all the sockets, fix any issue then they will just check the continuity again and if fine won't charge me. So, is this what I need? Or do I need a multimeter?
    @Adam_151 or @ZG002 would appreciate any suggestions!

    www.screwfix.com/p/lap-ms6860d-socket-tester/91596
    https://www.diy.com/departments/b-q-230-v-socket-tester/178677_BQ.prd
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
  7. lewism

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 10, 2006

    Posts: 2,589

    Location: Fife

    No continuity on a ring means one is not complete. Usually behind a socket or a spur. For that you will need a multimeter that deals in ohms.

    If you're determined to have a go at it yourself, as you appear to be, then there are plenty of guides online on how to carry out ring readings.
     
  8. ZG002

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 22, 2004

    Posts: 10,396

    Location: Up north in Sunderland

    Yeah, you need to check the continuity of the live, neutral and cpc a multi meter will be needed as the cheapest option to check.

    To be honest, if I were you I'd turn the power off and just start checking sockets if you find something obvious repair it and have them come and test it with the board change. You will have either sorted it or there were multiple faults and the electrican needs to track down a damaged leg.

    If you see nothing obvious let the electrican deal with it.
     
  9. Adam_151

    Mobster

    Joined: May 18, 2004

    Posts: 2,684

    Location: Lincoln, Uk

    Testing the ring values is generally done with a low ohms meter, generally speaking a multi-meter probably wouldn't have the accuracy to do the readings properly (a higher end one, thats also been calibrated might) but.... you should be alright to detect the difference between open ring, and not open ring, just be aware if its auto ranging, that if you get a result in K-ohms, then you are reading a path through some loads I.e. you are measuring the live, but its open, but on each side there is a load between that and neutral. You are generally looking for a result less than one ohm, but could be slightly higher on a long ring.

    But, knowing the ring is open is different to knowing where the problem is, there are different techniques, I wouldn't generally advise a DIYer to go in the consumer unit, but one way to get an idea of where a broken live is is to take one live out of the breaker, make it safe, in a connector/wago go around and see which sockets still have power, sometimes its obvious which order its likely to be wired in and you can see where to start looking. Unfortunatly while there is a way to tell which is the 'last' socket on each half before the break, it uses kit you won't have. I would suggest that you don't go into the consumer unit unless you have a separate isolator though as obviously the terminals into the main switch are live even with that turned off
     
  10. Ahleckz

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 7, 2009

    Posts: 17,703

    Location: Glasgow

    Definitely not going into the consumer unit!

    I'm just going to unscrew each socket (there can't be more than around 10 in the flat) and see if there's anything obvious. If not, I'll just have to stump up for some investigation work.

    I've got another quote for a new board, and to issue small works certificates for £390 all in which is a £90 saving from the original people. I'm right in thinking that with the old report (with some passes and some fails) and a new report passing the fails, I'm compliant?
     
  11. ZG002

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 22, 2004

    Posts: 10,396

    Location: Up north in Sunderland

    Yes,

    Make sure the minor works is descriptive and clearly addresses the issues raised on original report. Just makes life easier if you do have an issue and questions are asked usually by someone with no electrical knowledge.
     
  12. lewism

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 10, 2006

    Posts: 2,589

    Location: Fife

    Minor works following an EICR should reference the observation number in the description on the minor works for good practice. E.g;

    Replacing broken socket on circuit 5 in downstairs hallway as per observation 3 on EICR.

    Thus, like you say, the two bits of paperwork go together and the installation is now satisfactory. You don't get a new eicr with satisfactory on the front of it.
     
  13. Ahleckz

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 7, 2009

    Posts: 17,703

    Location: Glasgow

    Hi, sorry. This is turning into an absolute nightmare. I may just end up paying the money...

    So, my issue today is this. I thought I'd install a new socket for the oven to save £40. I've installed a double backbox, and went to wire in the wires however they were just too thick to get in the holes.

    That's got me thinking, am I able to simply install a standard 13amp 2 gang switched socket, and plug my cooker into that (and my hob into the other socket). I believe that this socket is a spur from a 'proper' cooker switch. If I am, are there any switches that will handle a 'bigger' cable as I just can't get it in (oh er) with the basic 13amp 2 gang switch I bought from Screwfix?...

    This is a picture of what is there before (but I've now got a 2gang back box). The black sheathed cable leading away at the bottom is being removed and the thicker wires coming from the right are the spur...

    [​IMG]

    This is the socket that the spur comes off, which I am questioning whether I'm allowed to install a socket. It's quite a learning curve this, sorry if I'm coming across as a complete idiot but I'm keen to learn and save a bit of cash!

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Adam_151

    Mobster

    Joined: May 18, 2004

    Posts: 2,684

    Location: Lincoln, Uk

    Im not sure what you are trying to do? You cant have a hob plugged in unless its just the ignitor for a gass one, electric hobs will be more than 13A. Normal way is to fit a twin accessory box (like two singles, joined) rather than a double, and have a cooker connection unit (like you already have) on one side for the hob, and a 13A single socket other side for oven.

    Were does the 2.5mm cable go on that cooker outlet (the thinner twin and earth), where does the black flex go?
     
  15. Ahleckz

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 7, 2009

    Posts: 17,703

    Location: Glasgow

    Sorry for the confusion.

    The hob is gas, so it's just a sparker.

    The black flex goes to a single switch which had a extension on which the oven and hob was plugged into (with the whole thing just sitting on the floor of the unit) - this is what has obviously failed the EICR and which is why I was advised to fit a new double switch which is what I'm trying to do.

    THe other cables (not going to the black cable) all go to a cooker switch at the counter level.

    I should add - the terminal capacity states 1 x 6mm. I could buy one which has 2x4mm, to me that should mean there is more room which is my issue?... I literally can't get all the wires into the holes...

    Here's an extremely bad sketch...

    [​IMG]
     
  16. ZG002

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 22, 2004

    Posts: 10,396

    Location: Up north in Sunderland

    So other than that black flex the others go back to the cooker switch?

    Are you sure?
     
  17. Ahleckz

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 7, 2009

    Posts: 17,703

    Location: Glasgow

    Nope...

    I can't take a picture (phoned died when I was working on it, and I'm not at the property now). There is one thick cable with a bunch of wires in it, and then another cable that is one wire but is quite thick (but not as thick as the other one when they are all combined). No idea what mm the wires are, sorry!

    Terminal capacity seems to be what I'm looking for. I have a switch which accepts 1x6mm, but I'm going to buy one that accepts 2x4mm (https://www.screwfix.com/p/schneide...te/6232j#product_additional_details_container) and see if that works better for me...
     
  18. Cosmic182

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 25, 2006

    Posts: 2,688

    Why people mess around with electrics when they have no clue is beyond me! By the time you have messed around with them and bodged them it will cost a damn sight more than quoted! Not worth it, buy once cry once.
     
  19. ZG002

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 22, 2004

    Posts: 10,396

    Location: Up north in Sunderland

    The cable sizes look to be 6mm and 2.5mm.

    The 6mm will typically come from the cooker switch at bench level to the outlet (the part you are trying to change)

    You need to work out where the 2.5mm is going as it's not a usual part of the cooker circuit.

    It may be the case that it's not needed and all you need to actually connect is the 6mm (which should fit the socket outlet you have).
     
  20. Ahleckz

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 7, 2009

    Posts: 17,703

    Location: Glasgow

    You only learn by doing! They wanted £75 to replace a light switch and install a socket. I changed the light switch in minutes, and put the majority of the new switch in pretty quickly. Just struggling with the wires getting in the holes. Sure, I could pay someone and sit on my arse watching The Simpsons whilst they do it but I've got nothing else to do in the evening so may as well learn how to do it. That way, when I next need to do this I'll know how to and not need to pay anyone to install a socket again.

    WHy doesn't everyone just buy a PC from Currys instead of building their own? Some people like to try and learn. And sure, I'm a huge novice with sod all experience in DIY but for me that's more reason to have a go! I'm being careful, I'm not bodging it and I'm seeking advice when I'm struggling. If I can't do it, I'll get someone in to sort it. I've spent £3 on 3 switches, £2 on a backbox and £2 on a lightswitch... SO if it doesn't work, I've wasted £7 and a few hours in the evening. It's not the end of the world.