R-7 1800X vs i7-8700K vs Threadripper > Gaming + Streaming/Video Editing

[Drazek]

Hey all,

I'm looking to upgrade from my current 4 core 6700K Skylake chip.

I've already decided I don't want a 4 core chip anymore, so the 7700K is out.
Also I don't feel like dealing with the supernova i9-7900X which runs as hot as the sun when overclocked...

However, I can't decide on which platform to go with for my use case...

I'm primarily a gamer, 90% of my time will be gaming, however I am also trying to get more into streaming and gaming video creation, so I need more than 4 cores, as I've already noticed FPS drops when recording video whilst gaming (BF1 gave me a 20FPS drop whilst recording during a match!)

I'm running 2x 1080 Ti's overclocked, and a fully custom watercooling loop and my default res is 3440x1440 (ultrawide), so i'm a bit beyond 1080p and 1440p, but not quite as high as 4k.

what are you opinions? what cpu would you go for if you were a gaming streamer after the best performance from your rig without compromising FPS when streaming?

granted, Threadripper is probably overkill. however I like the idea of 64 pcie lanes...

and is it worth waiting for the 8700K? it will no doubt have a much higher clock than the Ryzen and thus be better for gaming... but only 6 cores vs 8 on the 1800X? is 6 cores going to be enough?

Thanks,
Draz.

 

[Drazek]

I tend to play the latest and greatest titles most often, sometimes I litterally stop playing a pretty good game just because a new game's been released that I wanted to check out... my "need to complete" list gets longer ever month! - anyway I digress.
All kinds of games, from RTS to FPS to MMO, my youtube channel tends to focus on coop multiplayer games of a AAA graphics nature, but yes... usually 'newer' games are played rather than older games, I'm fairly sure my 2x 1080 Ti's are mucho overkill for older games these days.

I've been watching a few graphics comparison videos on the 1800X(OC) vs 7700K(OC), and the 1800X seems to keep up with the 7700K quite closely, sometimes even beating it at high resolutions... factoring in the streaming aspect which will probably gimp the 7700K, looks like the Ryzen 1800X may well be the winner here.

However there's still that question of the upcoming i7-8700K,.. I don't want to build out an 1800X only for the 8700K to come along and trounce it (and be find with streaming). *sigh*

But this is all completely ignoring the Threadripper beast! - I'm not on a budget here... I will be recording gaming footage and streaming at the same time, which sure the 1800X should be able to do fine.

... it feels so weird actually considering moving to AMD when I've been a die hard intel user for so many years!

 

[Drazek]

I would just wait for the 8700K numbers first, if I don't have to buy immediately. cpu-monkey expects the 8700K to be the best for single-thread performance and at the same time to match the 1700X for multi-thread performance...

Why is the 1800X single core Cinebench score lower than the single core Threadripper score?... weird.

 

[Drazek]

If this is the case, then for the reason I stated above, it's recommended that you get AMD CPU for AMD GPUs, and Intel CPU for nVIdia GPUs. That's the current ecology.

I have to admit, I know the general consensus is that AMD cpu's work best with AMD GPU's and therefore nvidia favours intel... however I've never really seen any real evidence that dictates this as fact? I mean, aren't GPU's a little CPU agnostic? like, as long as the CPU can handle the load... the GPU shouldn't care whether it's intel or amd surely? - of course I could be completely wrong here?

 

[Drazek]

If i was you? id get the Threadripper 1920X, while not the top end 1950X it still a beastly CPU, would give you decent gaming performance and allow you to stream and edit / upload all at the same time etc, no way you'd do that on the 8700K, you'd need the Intel 7900 for that i reckon.

Yeah and I can't bring myself to buy the 7900 with all that heat and crappy TIM... :/

 

[Drazek]

AMD CPUs sometimes work better with AMD graphics cards, at least for some early version games/drivers. For nVidia graphics cards, maybe Intel CPUs could be a better choice for gaming (see posts like this).

I've done a bit of digging in that thread and a few benchmark seaches on youtube, I'm still not conviced... Ryzen had optimisation issues with motherboard bioses at release, which have gotten better now and improved the performance on both nvidia and amd cards... also it's been a known thing that nvidia cards run better in DX11 than DX12... only now is nvidia improving it's performance in DX12 games.

This Article better investigates the whole "amd/amd nvidia/intel" argument: "So, are Nvidia GPUs limiting Ryzen's gaming performance? Well, we didn't find any evidence of that. In some DX12 scenarios, the 1800X performs better than the 7700K when paired with a RX 480 over the GTX 1060, but that doesn't prove Nvidia is handicapping Ryzen."

 

[Drazek]

Sounds like you have already got a direction you want to go in, is money a factor here? Is there a rough cost you want to stick to?

nope! I just wanted to hear some opinions on which platform other ppl thought would be best to go for in my use case

If anything, I think you guys have alleviated my worry about the core clock difference between AMD and Intel,.. I knew i was going to take an FPS hit by building for streaming regardless, I just wanted to mitigate that FPS hit as much as possible.

the 7900X isn't off the table yet,.. but I think i'd have to delid that thing if i were to go with it over the threadripper. I need to tame those heats!

 

[Drazek]

Alright, alright guys, lets not start a cat fight in this thread.

I asked the question mainly because I -wanted- to hear other ppl's opinions, whether they're false, biased, or on point.

it doesn't matter to me that the 8700K isn't out yet, we can still speculate on it's performance... I'm 90% sure you can take the current 7700K, slap 2 more cores onto it and use that as an "estimate" for the 8700K's performance with a margin of error.

There is some stuff out there showing the single threaded performance of the 7700k at 5ghz being important for allowing dual 1080ti cards to stretch their legs.

I have a single 1080ti and I see quite a few situations at 3440x1440 where it’s not maxed out. Some are obvious engine limitations and others I’m pretty sure a 7700k would have helped.

There is a user here, can’t remember who, that went from ryzen back to a 7700k because his SLI 1080ti were not running well. I’d be cautious jumping into ryzen or threadripper for gaming on those GPUs. You can also be 100% confident that 4 threads for streaming and gaming is going to suck so the 7700k is out.

All of which, if it were my money, would have me waiting for the 8700k reviews. If the IPC is there and the two cores extra are enough to help the streaming then it’s going to be the best way of forcing your GPUs to work their hardest. If budget isn’t an issue I’m sure you can buy one delid for a 50 quid or so premium and that’ll be fine temps wise with a decent AIO.

If you can’t wait I’d go 1800x, 3200c14 mems. Best guaranteed single thread IPC under 8 core and best likely upgrade path.

This however is quite informative, I was 50/50 on going with Ryzen/Threadripper but if they're going to hamper the performance of my x 1080Ti's that I've litterally spent 3 days rebuilding my watercooling system and applying liquid metal for then screw that! - I think i'll wait for the 8700K benchmarks (and hopefully streaming benchmarks) from some of my favorite tech youtubers and then decide on whether I should get the i7-8700K or the i9-7900X.

 

[Drazek]

Having said that,couldn't you just build another PC for streaming??

I could... I have all the parts lying around for another system... (I should probably get round to putting them into an ITX build or something, rather than just let them lay around rot.)

But that means having another PC hooked up and running just to act as a streaming/recording proxy... and I don't really have the 'space' in the house to be doing that just yet, I don't have a dedicated computer room yet and my youtube channel audience is practically non-existent at the moment...

I did stream some Destiny 2 PC beta last night, however I could tell my CPU was struggling as the stream struggled running at 60FPS and kept dropping out, had to knock it down to 30FPS - UDF2 Gaming YouTube Channel if you're at all interested.

 

[Drazek]

Hahaha! I love the 2 page blow up of back and forthing, deffo made my morning - Apologies but I can't remember everything that was said so i won't address every point (even though I could just go and re-read but I have work to do...)

1700 vs 7700K... pretty even BUT... look at the lighter blue 7700K line and compare it with the Ryzen lines, the later is clearly smoother. even the 1600X is smoother than the 7700K.

So based on the benchmarks you've posted, I can surmise that an 8 core CPU is better than a 4 core CPU ... which I already knew this and doesn't really help with my decision ;D - 4 core CPUs are off the table entirely, i'd only consider the upcoming 6 core 8700K however after everything that's said, I think i'd be better off leaving that one off the table also!

The gist of your arguments are all based on content creation/highly threaded apps first > gaming second. - which is cool, I get why you recommend the Ryzen over any 4 core intel. - However i'd be more inclined to go with Threadripper for this use case, 16 cores are better than 8 right!?

also I appreciate your benchmarks are meant to highlight a difference in cpu restrained workloads, but I'd never ever game in 1080p on my machine ... I run 3440x1440 and am even considering ditching my lovely 21:9 ultrawide for a 4k 16:9 HDR model (i know! i hits me in the feels just saying it!)

For the record, i wouldn't ever buy a 4 core Intel now. except maybe the 7740x for pure Mhz.

From what I've read, the gist of your arguments are mostly based on Gaming First > content creation/high threaded apps second. - which is actually more the angle I was going with in the first place, thus your recommendation of the 7900X despite my initial apprehension due to the heat issue is very interesting.

You actually have an i9-7900X, so you'd be the best person to ask.. have you tried overclocking it? what were the best clocks you managed to achieve? and what temperatures did it pump out... based on your sig can I assume you have a custom watercooling system? and I believe you said that your chip was not delidded... so yeah, info please!

Sorry to distract from all the bickering, but I would like to suggest a simple solution for you. Give your budget seems to be ambiguous, yet pretty high, and you don't seem to mind setting up and configuring your own hardware, why not have a bit of an experiment to see where it gets you?

Pick up a Ryzen 7 1700, and a cheap X370 board for about £400 all in, if you need to get some RAM that will be compatible with this and possibly an Intel system moving forward, however I would imagine what you have in the 6700K system will do you for now, so no added costs. Setup the new board, and CPU with your gear and take it for a spin, see how it feels, do your own tests, and benchmarks, get a feel for it, should you hate it, or the performance in not there that you expected, then you can probably sell it on losing no more than £50-70 but you'll have first hand experience. Also it allows you to spend time waiting for Coffee Lake (Oct/Nov release) gathering real data, and comparing it to the reviews etc, unless your time is super precious and you can't afford to waste it then this route will give you the best answer you will ever get.

Which ever option you chose to take, I am sure lots of people will tell you it was wrong, or stupid.

haha no doubt my decision will end up being the wrong one! ;D - thanks for the suggestion, though I can't particularly be bothered to setup a whole ryzen machine just for testing purposes and sell it on... plus I'm thinking i'd rather just grab Threadripper if i'm going to go AMD.

I would be inclined to get an 1800X tbh. They are getting extremely cheap for the performance they offer and enable you capture at the same time. Although, have you considered a dedicated capture card?

Yes, if I were to get Ryzen the 1800X would be the chip i'd grab... or the 1700X as it apparently overclocks just as high as the 1800X without losing anything. - the dedicated capture card suggestion is interesting and something I hadn't considered... but I can still see myself upgrading to a HEDT system regardless.

I just felt if the OP wants to spend more time building their channel a dedicated PC would make more sense,and also give them a backup. Its why I suggested it. Even the dedicated capture card suggestion is a good one.

Thanks Cat, yes a dedicated PC that can do it all is what i'm really after, I'd rather avoid a 2nd streaming box.

####

Either way, good opinions from everyone here! - lets put a couple more 'rules' on the table:

no more 'mainstream' CPUs. - I'm after a HEDT system, so my choices are the Intel 7900X or Threadripper (I can't see the point of going lower than the 7900X as they start cutting PCIE lanes, and if I'm going to spend HEDT budgets, then I don't want compromises.)

Gaming First > Streaming/Video Creation Second. - This is my preferred 'use case', I'm running 2x nVidia GTX 1080 Ti's in SLI and a res of 3440x1440 so whatever CPU I choose will have to be able to run those cards at that res or higher without hiccups. - granted I have seen many benchmarks that seem to say that FPS ends up being the same on both CPU's (intel/amd) once you start getting into 4k resolution territory. - This is partly what makes the decision so hard! there's no clear winner here.

Budget is no option, assume I have £2000 to spend on a CPU+Mobo combo.

####

Thanks for all the suggestions and banter thus far ;D - Round 2, Fight!.

 

[Drazek]

Suggest you up your budget

Mountain Mods dual case.
7900X + X299 mobo
TR 1950X + X399 mobo

circa 3K + additional GFX cards and memory

No fight, no contest.

Hahaha i'm not about to go installing a dual system just to satisfy both options!

I think I've decided on the i9-7900X ... i think, I'm still hovering over that Threadripper button though :|

However, the TR is also a monster platform as well and shouldn't be over looked.

This is exactly why the choice is so hard! - damn you AMD for actually producing a worthy competitor to Intel!

 

[Drazek]

So you bought the i9? or TR? you don't seem too sure

They are almost similar money (at the time of posting).

I haven't actually "bought" it yet... but i'm going for the i9-7900X finally made my mind up, I saw some more bad press on Threadripper/Ryzen based on optimizations and stuff, so I'm going to play it 'safe' and stick with the more mature intel architecture plus the higher clock speed will be nice.

Honestly if I had the money and the use for a 2nd machine i'd just buy both as Threadripper still sounds like an amazing CPU!

 

[Drazek]

I've pretty much come to the same conclusion, as i'll be going down the i9 route with the Asus Rampage VI Extreme. I've not completely decided on the core count yet though but a binned 7900X is my current front runner. As for my use case, the i9 is a better fit.

So i'll be kicking off another updated build log once OCUK have stock of the items.

Project Water 3.0? I just had a read through your Project Water 2.0 build log, very nice black and white system you made there! ;D

 

[Drazek]

Faster*

*Unless the application Is not fully threaded.

And when the higher core chips come out. Not faster. Ever.

+1 ... *shakes head and chuckles*