R-7 1800X vs i7-8700K vs Threadripper > Gaming + Streaming/Video Editing

humbug · 29 Aug 2017 at 15:32

james_2k said:
Its cute you think i'm the one who started arguing, as far as i was aware, this was a discussion. An 8/10 core cpu is a good match for the OP, and the intel ones are more expensive, for sure. but they are better than AMD for non full threaded applications. (per core, faster, no debate on that) And going forward, this in my opinion, will become more obvious. Next console generation things may change again and 20 core cpus will be in order. but for the next few years..
Incidentally, i wouldn't recommend a 7700k for the OP.

Then what would you recommend? no X299 CPU is faster in games than any AMD CPU above the 1500X, for video editing and streaming (his other two requests) the 7800X and 7820X are little or no faster than the Ryzen 1600 and 1700 while costing twice as much.

The perfect CPU for him in terms of performance and price is the Ryzen 1700.

james_2k · 29 Aug 2017 at 15:36

No x299 cpu is faster in games? because of your picture? do we disregard the one DG posted? The guy obviously has a high budget owing to him considering a TR, so why not use that budget? But TR wouldn't be as good for his '90%' quoted usage as an x299 based system, sooo..

humbug · 29 Aug 2017 at 15:47

james_2k said:
No x299 cpu is faster in games? because of your picture? do we disregard the one DG posted? The guy obviously has a high budget owing to him considering a TR, so why not use that budget? But TR wouldn't be as good for his '90%' quoted usage as an x299 based system, sooo..

Threadripper 1950X is faster than the 7900X in video encoding, one of his requests, hell even the 1920X is just as fast for that, so for that money Threadripper is the better option there.
Streaming while gaming, there is no difference between them.

As for games, your making blanket statements, i'm backing up what i'm saying with actual benchmarks slides, which you then angrily reject because they disprove your arguments.

james_2k said:
are there posting your opinion as fact.

I just hope you have stock in them because its bordering on insane

Pot kettle...

james_2k · 29 Aug 2017 at 15:51

Angry? Who is angry?

You have disregarded the post DG made, and posted a screen shot of a small sample of games.

And with regard to kitchen utensils, well i haven't been posting this stuff for years, so i have some way to go before i can be compared to that particular kettle.

Anyway its clear what we both think, lets leave it at that. We will see what happens with gaming moving forward.

Out of interest, what cpu do you run?

humbug · 29 Aug 2017 at 16:47

james_2k said:
Angry? Who is angry?

You have disregarded the post DG made, and posted a screen shot of a small sample of games.

And with regard to kitchen utensils, well i haven't been posting this stuff for years, so i have some way to go before i can be compared to that particular kettle.

Anyway its clear what we both think, lets leave it at that. We will see what happens with gaming moving forward.

Out of interest, what cpu do you run?

I didn't disregard it at all, i acknowledged it and agreed it was accurate for the game in that particular frame, go back and actually read what i said. what i posted was an average across 30 games.

What CPU do you think i have and what does it matter? if i have an AMD CPU am i an AMD Shill? if i have an Intel CPU then what? is that because i'm a hypocrite?

james_2k · 29 Aug 2017 at 17:12

Wow, you are highly strung, relax a bit. Was just a question purely out of interest, no hidden agenda

And to be accurate you said 'the view distance is down therefore easy for the puny intels' /paraphrasing

humbug · 29 Aug 2017 at 17:17

james_2k said:
Wow, you are highly strung, relax a bit. Was just a question purely out of interest, no hidden agenda

And to be accurate you said 'the view distance is down therefore easy for the puny intels' /paraphrasing

If i can remember and find the video those screen shots actually came from you'll see what i'm talking about, at least with the Ryzen 5 vs core i5 one, when ever the view was close with nothing going on the i5 was actually a little faster, once the view panned out to the grass and city area the i5 frame rates tanked, and i mean tanked while the Ryzen CPU remained strong. the i5 littrally tanked to half the Ryzen 5's performance.

And here....

james_2k · 29 Aug 2017 at 17:19

i wouldn't have guessed it, but fair play!

really want to download crysis 3 and give is a bench now.

David Bisset · 29 Aug 2017 at 17:22

Wait, 30 games averaged should be discounted but a screenshot of one game in one scene at one moment in time is admissible? That's an impressive double-standard.

Pretty sure the argument is dead though as you'll each pick examples where you prove yourselves right as it's never as simple as 'this is faster than that' (nor 'this is faster per-core than that' given how differently the CPUs handle different workloads. The 'IPC' people derive for each are so workload dependent it's all a pointless exercise in keyboard warrioring.)

james_2k · 29 Aug 2017 at 17:25

David Bisset said:
Wait, 30 games averaged should be discounted but a screenshot of one game in one scene at one moment in time is admissible? That's an impressive double-standard.

Pretty sure the argument is dead though as you'll each pick examples where you prove yourselves right as it's never as simple as 'this is faster than that' (nor 'this is faster per-core than that' given how differently the CPUs handle different workloads. The 'IPC' people derive for each are so workload dependent it's all a pointless exercise in keyboard warrioring.)

Just.. cant.. resist..

humbug · 29 Aug 2017 at 17:34

He is right tho...

james_2k · 29 Aug 2017 at 17:35

of course, doesn't make it any less of a story, a cool one at that

humbug · 29 Aug 2017 at 17:38

humbug said:
If i can remember and find the video those screen shots actually came from you'll see what i'm talking about, at least with the Ryzen 5 vs core i5 one, when ever the view was close with nothing going on the i5 was actually a little faster, once the view panned out to the grass and city area the i5 frame rates tanked, and i mean tanked while the Ryzen CPU remained strong. the i5 literally tanked to half the Ryzen 5's performance.

Found it.

https://youtu.be/4RMbYe4X2LI?t=5m11s

james_2k · 29 Aug 2017 at 17:40

will check it out, ta

humbug · 29 Aug 2017 at 17:54

1700 vs 7700K... pretty even BUT... look at the lighter blue 7700K line and compare it with the Ryzen lines, the later is clearly smoother. even the 1600X is smoother than the 7700K.

https://youtu.be/2_fAzBB_oAQ?t=8m45s

james_2k · 29 Aug 2017 at 17:55

looks like hyperthreading makes a difference, but real cores more so!

For the record, i wouldn't ever buy a 4 core Intel now. except maybe the 7740x for pure Mhz.

Journey · 29 Aug 2017 at 21:18

Sorry to distract from all the bickering, but I would like to suggest a simple solution for you. Give your budget seems to be ambiguous, yet pretty high, and you don't seem to mind setting up and configuring your own hardware, why not have a bit of an experiment to see where it gets you?

Pick up a Ryzen 7 1700, and a cheap X370 board for about £400 all in, if you need to get some RAM that will be compatible with this and possibly an Intel system moving forward, however I would imagine what you have in the 6700K system will do you for now, so no added costs. Setup the new board, and CPU with your gear and take it for a spin, see how it feels, do your own tests, and benchmarks, get a feel for it, should you hate it, or the performance in not there that you expected, then you can probably sell it on losing no more than £50-70 but you'll have first hand experience. Also it allows you to spend time waiting for Coffee Lake (Oct/Nov release) gathering real data, and comparing it to the reviews etc, unless your time is super precious and you can't afford to waste it then this route will give you the best answer you will ever get.

Which ever option you chose to take, I am sure lots of people will tell you it was wrong, or stupid.

Scougar · 29 Aug 2017 at 21:36

I would be inclined to get an 1800X tbh. They are getting extremely cheap for the performance they offer and enable you capture at the same time. Although, have you considered a dedicated capture card?

I am sure there are other owners on here who can run Tests for you capturing video whilst gaming and give you the results.

That, or wait for whatever Intel brings to bat, but expect to pay a premium.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 29 Aug 2017 at 22:15

I just felt if the OP wants to spend more time building their channel a dedicated PC would make more sense,and also give them a backup. Its why I suggested it. Even the dedicated capture card suggestion is a good one.

Drazek · 30 Aug 2017 at 10:29

Hahaha! I love the 2 page blow up of back and forthing, deffo made my morning

- Apologies but I can't remember everything that was said so i won't address every point (even though I could just go and re-read but I have work to do...)

humbug said:
1700 vs 7700K... pretty even BUT... look at the lighter blue 7700K line and compare it with the Ryzen lines, the later is clearly smoother. even the 1600X is smoother than the 7700K.

So based on the benchmarks you've posted, I can surmise that an 8 core CPU is better than a 4 core CPU ... which I already knew this and doesn't really help with my decision ;D - 4 core CPUs are off the table entirely, i'd only consider the upcoming 6 core 8700K however after everything that's said, I think i'd be better off leaving that one off the table also!

The gist of your arguments are all based on content creation/highly threaded apps first > gaming second. - which is cool, I get why you recommend the Ryzen over any 4 core intel. - However i'd be more inclined to go with Threadripper for this use case, 16 cores are better than 8 right!?

also I appreciate your benchmarks are meant to highlight a difference in cpu restrained workloads, but I'd never ever game in 1080p on my machine ... I run 3440x1440 and am even considering ditching my lovely 21:9 ultrawide for a 4k 16:9 HDR model

(i know! i hits me in the feels just saying it!)

james_2k said:
For the record, i wouldn't ever buy a 4 core Intel now. except maybe the 7740x for pure Mhz.

From what I've read, the gist of your arguments are mostly based on Gaming First > content creation/high threaded apps second. - which is actually more the angle I was going with in the first place, thus your recommendation of the 7900X despite my initial apprehension due to the heat issue is very interesting.

You actually have an i9-7900X, so you'd be the best person to ask.. have you tried overclocking it? what were the best clocks you managed to achieve? and what temperatures did it pump out... based on your sig can I assume you have a custom watercooling system? and I believe you said that your chip was not delidded... so yeah, info please!

Journey said:
Sorry to distract from all the bickering, but I would like to suggest a simple solution for you. Give your budget seems to be ambiguous, yet pretty high, and you don't seem to mind setting up and configuring your own hardware, why not have a bit of an experiment to see where it gets you?

Pick up a Ryzen 7 1700, and a cheap X370 board for about £400 all in, if you need to get some RAM that will be compatible with this and possibly an Intel system moving forward, however I would imagine what you have in the 6700K system will do you for now, so no added costs. Setup the new board, and CPU with your gear and take it for a spin, see how it feels, do your own tests, and benchmarks, get a feel for it, should you hate it, or the performance in not there that you expected, then you can probably sell it on losing no more than £50-70 but you'll have first hand experience. Also it allows you to spend time waiting for Coffee Lake (Oct/Nov release) gathering real data, and comparing it to the reviews etc, unless your time is super precious and you can't afford to waste it then this route will give you the best answer you will ever get.

Which ever option you chose to take, I am sure lots of people will tell you it was wrong, or stupid.

haha no doubt my decision will end up being the wrong one! ;D - thanks for the suggestion, though I can't particularly be bothered to setup a whole ryzen machine just for testing purposes and sell it on... plus I'm thinking i'd rather just grab Threadripper if i'm going to go AMD.

Scougar said:
I would be inclined to get an 1800X tbh. They are getting extremely cheap for the performance they offer and enable you capture at the same time. Although, have you considered a dedicated capture card?

Yes, if I were to get Ryzen the 1800X would be the chip i'd grab... or the 1700X as it apparently overclocks just as high as the 1800X without losing anything. - the dedicated capture card suggestion is interesting and something I hadn't considered... but I can still see myself upgrading to a HEDT system regardless.

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
I just felt if the OP wants to spend more time building their channel a dedicated PC would make more sense,and also give them a backup. Its why I suggested it. Even the dedicated capture card suggestion is a good one.

Thanks Cat, yes a dedicated PC that can do it all is what i'm really after, I'd rather avoid a 2nd streaming box.

####

Either way, good opinions from everyone here! - lets put a couple more 'rules' on the table:

no more 'mainstream' CPUs. - I'm after a HEDT system, so my choices are the Intel 7900X or Threadripper (I can't see the point of going lower than the 7900X as they start cutting PCIE lanes, and if I'm going to spend HEDT budgets, then I don't want compromises.)

Gaming First > Streaming/Video Creation Second. - This is my preferred 'use case', I'm running 2x nVidia GTX 1080 Ti's in SLI and a res of 3440x1440 so whatever CPU I choose will have to be able to run those cards at that res or higher without hiccups. - granted I have seen many benchmarks that seem to say that FPS ends up being the same on both CPU's (intel/amd) once you start getting into 4k resolution territory. - This is partly what makes the decision so hard! there's no clear winner here.

Budget is no option, assume I have £2000 to spend on a CPU+Mobo combo.

####

Thanks for all the suggestions and banter thus far ;D - Round 2, Fight!.