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Raptor Lake Leaks + Intel 4 developments

@Grim5 - I don't need to prove it's unofficial. The rumoured specs don't even make sense, such as adding more e cores using the same 10nm process, when Alder Lake the 12900K already runs too damn hot with the 8 large and 8 small cores.

Y'all made up your minds way too soon, step off the hype train for a brief moment :)
 
Intel have so far only confirmed more Alder Lake CPUs and Sapphire Rapid server processors, for release in 2022.

I agree that based on AMD's claims about IPC, Zen 4 is very likely to be faster than Alder Lake. Additionally, 5nm EUV is a pretty large improvement in both transistor density and power efficiency, compared to the previous generation's 7nm process.

Intel has said nothing about a new architecture to follow Alder Lake in 2022. So, we can conclude that any improvements will be pretty small, if Intel does release an Alder Lake refresh in 2022.

I'm quite willing to accept that Intel may have a new architecture for 2022, but only if they themselves announce it first.

A new architecture on 10nm seems unlikely, since Intel tends to design new microarchictures for a new fabrication process. When they didn't do this with Rocket Lake (because 10nm was not ready for use in desktop processors at this point), the result was described as a 'Waste of sand', in comparison to the previous 10th generation processors.
 
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Indeed, probably the most likely thing in my view, is a refresh of Alder Lake (with the same Golden Cove architecture) on the same 10nm process in Q3/Q4 2022. But nothing at all is also possible, depending on what AMD releases in 2022 (which despite AMD's roadmap, is far from certain).

What I was trying to say, is that it won't be the 'Raptor Lake' (with the rumoured specification + performance improvements) that some rumours have suggested will be released in 2022.
 
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I couldn't give a toss if they added some more E-cores to an Alder Lake refresh, that no doubt would run even hotter than the 12900K under load.

We are in an argumentative mood today aren't we :)
 
@Journey - Dude, you're trying to make it personal, you're welcome to ignore what I've posted and make up your own mind.

One of the main problems I have with tech rumours, is the assertiveness and confidence that they are often put across, despite any credible sources, such as AMD, Intel or other related companies. Unfortunately, people believing these rumours often adopt this same attitude, apparently with no room for doubt.

One thing they might be able to do with an Alder Lake refresh on the same Golden Cove architecture, is add an improved memory controller, that adds gear 1 support for some DDR5 frequencies. That could boost performance somewhat, if it's possible.
 
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Funnily enough, I'm sure the moderators can act of their own accord without your input, but trying to shut down the thread is certainly a way to shut down someone else with a different point of view to your own, when you've nothing more to contribute yourself.

There's a link here for 'Raptor Lake' on Wikichip.org here:
https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/microarchitectures/raptor_lake

As you can see, the page is empty. That's because the authors cannot verify any of the details of 'Raptor Lake', or even that it is under development.

It's a controversial topic for some people who've already assumed Raptor Lake + new architecture would be released, some disagreement with what I've written is to be expected, but it should be done with civility.
 
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LePhuronn said:
THAT is why I move to lock the thread down, you're just being childish and you've made your own damn thread a pointless joke.
Click to expand...

Is this guy for real? Imagine being irritated by someone who doesn't believe a rumour about the specs of a product release, it's surely a joke right?
 
You might be able to get some extra performance with this DLVR feature if used in future CPUs, as the reduced power usage could allow for higher clock speeds, while helping to reduce temps. I think this is the most credible improvement for an Alder Lake 10nm successor, power usage is definitely something with room for improvement on Intel's current 10nm CPUs. It would be good to know if this feature was tested on a 7nm or 10nm CPU though.

The 7% performance gain figure (can't find a source for this :confused:), seems like it would be achievable, based on the 20-25% improvement in power usage (due to a 160mV reduction in CPU voltage, with this amount diminishing beyond 40 amps).

It sounds like an additional voltage regulator is required, and might mean a new motherboard (if it can't be built into the CPU itself).
 
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I think Meteor Lake in the 1st half of 2023 will be a much better upgrade than the successor of Alder Lake, since it will have a new microarchitecture and a new 7nm EUV process. The thing is, lots of people will be already be upgrading to an Alder Lake system in 2022 when the full series is released along with cheaper motherboards. Not sure many will want to upgrade again in the same year.
 
Intel is preparing wafers of Meteor Lake (mobile) test chips here, at Fab 42:
https://www.cnet.com/a/img/resize/6...intel-arizona-fab-12.jpg?auto=webp&width=1092

More pics:
https://www.cnet.com/pictures/a-look-inside-intels-mammoth-arizona-chipmaking-fab/13/

It looks like Fab 42 is going to be very important for Intel's plans in 2022/2023.

More info here:
https://www.cnet.com/features/intels-chip-recovery-plan-could-restore-us-manufacturing-prowess/

This is what Intel's CEO says about their spending plans "Intel is done with stock buybacks, a financial move in which a company uses its cash to buy stock and thereby increase its price... We're investing in factories"
 
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I saw an interesting rumour here, regarding the LGA1700 socket:
https://overclock3d.net/news/cpu_mainboard/intel_s_new_lga1700_socket_has_been_pictured_-_it_s_big/1

It mentions the possibility that the LGA1700 socket might actually support 1800 pins, rather than 1700. "LGA-17xx/LGA-18XX" is visible on the socket lid, image here:
https://overclock3d.net/gfx/articles/2021/09/15095019280s.jpg

EDIT - So, it could be that all LGA1700 included with Alder Lake motherboards, are really LGA1800 sockets. I've looked at a couple of sockets on Asus and Gigabyte boards and they both have "LGA-18XX' etched on the socket lid. Links here:
https://marketresearchtelecast.com/...ke-S-Core-i9-12900K-comes-in-November-for.jpg
https://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/DSC_0551-Custom-2048x1365.jpg

It's confusing. Maybe support for other CPUs could be added in a BIOS update?
 
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Is anyone gonna skip Alder Lake and wait for the 13th generation CPUs? Assuming there will be another CPU generation in 2022 (it's not confirmed). If so, is it because you think CPUs released in late 2022 will be much faster than Alder Lake?

From my point of view, it looks like Intel is focusing their efforts mostly on Meteor Lake, and the following generation, which will both use Intel's 7nm EUV, which Intel claims will eventually have approx. double the transistor density of Intel's latest 10nm tech.

One factor that is a bit of an unknown still, is the yield rates on 10nm (now named 'Intel 7'), which probably aren't that impressive, given the trouble they've had with their 10nm yields, in previous years.

Probably the best case for the 13th gen, would be to port Alder Lake to the initial version of Intel's 7nm fab. technology (with some architecture improvements), perhaps even by the end of 2022. I find it interesting that nothing is confirmed by Intel yet, for new CPUs released in late 2022, so it's not impossible.

Edit - Intel has announced a separate 'neuromorphic' chip titled 'Loihi 2', which is "built with a "pre-production version" of the Intel 4 process node—that's what used to be known as 7nm". Link here:
https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/intels-new-brain-chip-uses-its-first-7nm-silicon/

A slide with more info here:
https://images.anandtech.com/doci/16960/Loihi 2 Lava Launch 2021-Sept-page-009_575px.jpg
 
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Grim5 said:
50% faster than ryzen 5000 in some scenarios, and we don't even have super fast DDR5 yet, can only get better for Intel
Click to expand...

I think we'd need to wait to see the performance of AMD's V-cache CPUs to see if these can compete with Alder Lake on price / performance...

AMD can still get good performance out of DDR4 for another year, I think mostly because DDR5 isn't running in 'gear 1' mode yet, with Alder Lake CPUs.
 
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Grim5 said:
Alder lake so good Intel doesn't need to launch anything till Zen 4
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If Intel can ready a 7nm CPU generation for release at the end of 2022, I think they will (that isn't Meteor Lake). Products based on the initial 7nm fab tech. were delayed by a year, but were originally planned for 2021 (there were defects which caused yield issues). It could be that they still don't know if 7nm yields will be sufficient to release a new series at the end of the year.

If they can't release the next gen by the end of the year, it would probably make more sense to delay the launch until Q1 2023, rather than rush out something inferior, especially as it's very likely Zen 4 desktop CPUs will release by this point.
 
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tbf, that article does say late 2022/early 2023 :cry:

Here's what the last CEO said “The primary driver is the yield of Intel's 7nm process, which based on recent data, is now trending approximately twelve months behind the company's internal target.”

I'm not sure it would be in Intel's interests to discuss 7nm CPUs details yet, at least until the entire Alder Lake series has been released for at least a few months.
 
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