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Raptor Lake Leaks

Soldato
Joined
28 May 2007
Posts
16,792
You've conflated my two sentences. I didn't say that post in question was trolling, however, it's not much help telling someone who wants to build a system now to buy a CPU that won't be available for a few months yet.

Its performance is still guesswork along with the price, availability and then how soon after that it would just be a few more months until the next best thing.

I think you are likely confusing my sense of humour and posts that follow on from a specific topic. Anyway, as I said once I realised it was you I withdrew from the thread as I knew any further advise from me would be met with hostility.
 
Caporegime
Joined
23 Apr 2014
Posts
25,336
Location
Huem
I think you are likely confusing my sense of humour and posts that follow on from a specific topic. Anyway, as I said once I realised it was you I withdrew from the thread as I knew any further advise from me would be met with hostility.

No, I'm not confusing anything about you. I and others here are well aware of your AMD preferences, it's abundantly clear in any of the build threads.

The response in my build thread wasn't at all hostile either, although if you're concerned about that it would probably be a good idea not to recommend components that are some way off in terms of availability.
 
Soldato
Joined
28 May 2007
Posts
16,792
No, I'm not confusing anything about you. I and others here are well aware of your AMD preferences, it's abundantly clear in any of the build threads.

The response in my build thread wasn't at all hostile either, although if you're concerned about that it would probably be a good idea not to recommend components that are some way off in terms of availability.

Me not recommending your favourite hardware or talking about its limitations offends and you and your others now?

If you’re the type to take things so personally maybe pop me on ignore.
 
Soldato
Joined
3 Oct 2013
Posts
3,275
I've come to the conclusion that if Jigger and Dave2150 were banned the forums would be so much better off, as would the servers
 
Caporegime
Joined
23 Apr 2014
Posts
25,336
Location
Huem
Me not recommending your favourite hardware or talking about its limitations offends and you and your others now?

If you’re the type to take things so personally maybe pop me on ignore.

Again, bit of a weird take as I’m not offended by you having preferences. I don’t have a “favourite hardware” so wouldn’t have any issues taking advice as long as it made sense.
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2012
Posts
2,956
Location
Oxfordshire
I've come to the conclusion that if Jigger and Dave2150 were banned the forums would be so much better off, as would the servers

Haha yeah it pretty mental. Making the odd daft post, missreading something and that is one thing. Continually barrelling forward about complete nonsense is mental from about 4 posters total.

I got my figures other day a little messed up by like 5% on something was ah my bad and someone went all in about it which was daft. But yeah.

There are a few things right now that hold true regardless of brand
  • Intel currently have the highest performance chips for desktop and have since the 12 series dropped
  • Their price to performance at a good few levels is better than AMD currently
  • Intel though are competing against 14month old products right now
  • AMD only has one chip that is coming in 3-6 months to compete with current situation and without a price drop will remain more expensive as someone looking for a build in current climate
  • Dates suggested are all 2022 with nobody needing to keep peddling that oh it will be delayed with no evidence to support that at all and litereal engineer samples already floating about 10months ahead.
  • Pulling the 5800x3D is best is irrelevant without any true data so don't keep saying it is now gaming King when you can't see it or get it for a good few month.
  • AMD support 5000 series from at least 400 series boards or randomly the A320 series with possibility to get the B3XX and X3XX boards possibly getting updated in near future

Those are all the things as a community it really comes too that I can think of. Anyone saying or push anything different to those points I don't understand.
 
Soldato
Joined
28 May 2007
Posts
16,792
Haha yeah it pretty mental. Making the odd daft post, missreading something and that is one thing. Continually barrelling forward about complete nonsense is mental from about 4 posters total.

I got my figures other day a little messed up by like 5% on something was ah my bad and someone went all in about it which was daft. But yeah.

There are a few things right now that hold true regardless of brand
  • Intel currently have the highest performance chips for desktop and have since the 12 series dropped
  • Their price to performance at a good few levels is better than AMD currently
  • Intel though are competing against 14month old products right now
  • AMD only has one chip that is coming in 3-6 months to compete with current situation and without a price drop will remain more expensive as someone looking for a build in current climate
  • Dates suggested are all 2022 with nobody needing to keep peddling that oh it will be delayed with no evidence to support that at all and litereal engineer samples already floating about 10months ahead.
  • Pulling the 5800x3D is best is irrelevant without any true data so don't keep saying it is now gaming King when you can't see it or get it for a good few month.
  • AMD support 5000 series from at least 400 series boards or randomly the A320 series with possibility to get the B3XX and X3XX boards possibly getting updated in near future

Those are all the things as a community it really comes too that I can think of. Anyone saying or push anything different to those points I don't understand.

To me 5% is much of a muchness, but to others within that 5% is lay the difference between a crushing defeat and dominating victory. Particularly to the DIY console building crowd. For me it’s all about the technology and innovation. The tech has to perform of course, but I don’t see the world in extremes and absolutes. The 5800X3D is both interesting and disappointing.
 
Last edited:
Associate
Joined
16 Jan 2014
Posts
145
I've come to the conclusion that if Jigger and Dave2150 were banned the forums would be so much better off, as would the servers

Just start adding people to your ignore list. It makes the forums a much more tolerable and peaceful place, although on the CPU threads it's scary how many posts disappear.
 
I can haz 3090?
Don
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
7,420
Location
Manchester
OT but we hear you and this sub forum will now be more actively and tightly moderated. The usual suspects are on our radar and we’re looking to implement a strike system similar to the GPU forum. 3 strikes and you lose access to the CPU section.
 
Soldato
Joined
31 Oct 2002
Posts
8,603
Haha yeah it pretty mental. Making the odd daft post, missreading something and that is one thing. Continually barrelling forward about complete nonsense is mental from about 4 posters total.

I got my figures other day a little messed up by like 5% on something was ah my bad and someone went all in about it which was daft. But yeah.

There are a few things right now that hold true regardless of brand
  • Intel currently have the highest performance chips for desktop and have since the 12 series dropped
  • Their price to performance at a good few levels is better than AMD currently
  • Intel though are competing against 14month old products right now
  • AMD only has one chip that is coming in 3-6 months to compete with current situation and without a price drop will remain more expensive as someone looking for a build in current climate
  • Dates suggested are all 2022 with nobody needing to keep peddling that oh it will be delayed with no evidence to support that at all and litereal engineer samples already floating about 10months ahead.
  • Pulling the 5800x3D is best is irrelevant without any true data so don't keep saying it is now gaming King when you can't see it or get it for a good few month.
  • AMD support 5000 series from at least 400 series boards or randomly the A320 series with possibility to get the B3XX and X3XX boards possibly getting updated in near future

Those are all the things as a community it really comes too that I can think of. Anyone saying or push anything different to those points I don't understand.

Good points, all accurate, though not what many want to hear.

I feel the tide has changed in the CPU scene, AMD woke Intel the sleeping giant. As a result, Intel have been executing at a greatly renewed pace with two new architectures launching in 2021 (Rocket Lake, Alderlake) and are set to release Raptor Lake this year.

Clearly Intel '7' process (10nm) is now working very well, as we're seeing mass availability of the CPU's, and performance is good. Intel having their own fabs means they have a huge advantage when it comes to supply/demand.

That said things can change in 2022, it all depends on timing and performance of unreleased parts.

Zen3 refresh - pretty boring to only have a refresh coming in "spring" - same old Zen3 architecture. Was dissapointed to learn it's limited to 8 core parts, as it won't be able to complete with the 12900k in many workloads as a result of this. Also unlikely it will match 12900k @ 5.5Ghz/12900KS. Can't see many 5950X owners down grading to lose 8 cores.

Zen4 - "On track for 2H 2022". This is a very wide goalpost, which can obviously change. Timing is key, lets hope it's earlier in the year rather than later. Performance wise - it needs to be a monster as it'll be competing against 13th gen Raptor Lake most likely. Raptor Lake will be a 24core part, with increased IPC, improved cache, improved architecture. Zen4 needs to be amazing - nothing less than 30% IPC over Zen 3 will do it IMO.
 
Caporegime
Joined
20 May 2007
Posts
36,392
Location
Surrey
Haha yeah it pretty mental. Making the odd daft post, missreading something and that is one thing. Continually barrelling forward about complete nonsense is mental from about 4 posters total.

I got my figures other day a little messed up by like 5% on something was ah my bad and someone went all in about it which was daft. But yeah.

There are a few things right now that hold true regardless of brand
  • Intel currently have the highest performance chips for desktop and have since the 12 series dropped
  • Their price to performance at a good few levels is better than AMD currently
  • Intel though are competing against 14month old products right now
  • AMD only has one chip that is coming in 3-6 months to compete with current situation and without a price drop will remain more expensive as someone looking for a build in current climate
  • Dates suggested are all 2022 with nobody needing to keep peddling that oh it will be delayed with no evidence to support that at all and litereal engineer samples already floating about 10months ahead.
  • Pulling the 5800x3D is best is irrelevant without any true data so don't keep saying it is now gaming King when you can't see it or get it for a good few month.
  • AMD support 5000 series from at least 400 series boards or randomly the A320 series with possibility to get the B3XX and X3XX boards possibly getting updated in near future

Those are all the things as a community it really comes too that I can think of. Anyone saying or push anything different to those points I don't understand.

Seems like some just don't like the reality that Intel are back in front. They are late to the party though, so we will know where everything stands once Zen 4 and Raptor Lake come out. Personaly i imagine that both Zen 4 and Raptor Lake will be sort of equal. I think Zen 4 will leapfrog Alderlake decently and then Raptor Lake will roughly match Zen 4.
 
Soldato
Joined
28 May 2007
Posts
16,792
Intel are in talks with TSMC about moving some of it’s X86 production. So I’m not sure 10nm capacity is all that good.

30% IPC gains over 96 cores would be sickening for Intel. If AMD make a performance jump like that, it will be more disruptive than Zen3 was to the market.

TBH, AMD need to be careful how they deal with Intel’s push into graphics cards. That is where Intel want to introduce competition and they have resources to really shape those markets for themselves. Ponte Vecchio and Arc is clearly where Intel has been focussing the majority of its development resources.
 
Soldato
Joined
28 May 2007
Posts
16,792
Seems like some just don't like the reality that Intel are back in front. They are late to the party though, so we will know where everything stands once Zen 4 and Raptor Lake come out. Personaly i imagine that both Zen 4 and Raptor Lake will be sort of equal. I think Zen 4 will leapfrog Alderlake decently and then Raptor Lake will roughly match Zen 4.

Intel are hardly on top. They have a handful of reasonably good desktop parts. That isn’t enough to be on top.
 
Soldato
Joined
26 Aug 2004
Posts
4,897
Location
South Wales
Seems like some just don't like the reality that Intel are back in front. They are late to the party though, so we will know where everything stands once Zen 4 and Raptor Lake come out. Personaly i imagine that both Zen 4 and Raptor Lake will be sort of equal. I think Zen 4 will leapfrog Alderlake decently and then Raptor Lake will roughly match Zen 4.
New platform vs a refresh. I don't know if it means anything in terms of performance but I'd be disappointed if Zen 4 wasn't a decent bump above Raptor Lake, we will see.
 
Associate
Joined
20 Aug 2019
Posts
2,081
Location
SW Florida
Intel are hardly on top. They have a handful of reasonably good desktop parts. That isn’t enough to be on top.

This ^ is semantics. Right now, Intel CPU's outperform AMD's CPU's. (In the consumer desktop space)

You say they are "reasonably good" as if to pretend that they don't perform any better than AMD's CPU's, but the reviews and benchmarks show that Alderlake is demonstrably faster than Zen 3.
 
Soldato
Joined
28 May 2007
Posts
16,792
This ^ is semantics. Right now, Intel CPU's outperform AMD's CPU's. (In the consumer desktop space)

You say they are "reasonably good" as if to pretend that they don't perform any better than AMD's CPU's, but the reviews and benchmarks show that Alderlake is demonstrably faster than Zen 3.

I say reasonably good, because they are reasonably good…
 
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